late 60's F tuners VS replacement RI F tuners

[Mr M]

i'm about to sell my Later 60's(i don't know the exact year) F tuners off my Villager Neck and i want to buy the RI F tuners.

my question is will the new tuners fit without any modification to the villager neck?

thanks!

[Pumpkin]

I would say Yes they will,i nearly bought them my self just the other day and if i thought they wouldn't fit i wouldn't even consider it.
F and klusons from the 60's and today are interchangeable.....i cant guarantee it but I'm almost certain you'd be right.
Jim shine pages has close ups of vintage and new parts,might wanna check that out too.

[fullerplast]

F-tuners changed in 1976, they require a larger bore for the shaft. Actually, it's a counter-bore; the hole in the headstock is Schaller-sized in the back and Kluson-sized in the front. Therefore the bushings are the same, but the later tuners will not fit on pre-76 guitars. I'm not sure if the reissue F tuners (Schallers) use the later pattern or the earlier pattern. But be aware that the difference is drastic and they are not interchangable without drilling.

To further complicate things,  even the first generation (Kluson-Sized) F-tuners differ slightly in certain years. While they all require the same bore, the shape of the casing is slightly different. There's a thread on this in the forum, started by Sookwinder. Do a search, he put alot of work into it, measuring the individual tuners.

So you need to find out the bore of the reissue F-tuners unless you don't mind enlarging the holes in the headstock.

[mjet]

There are a few issues you should be aware of before you do this. First of all bear in mind that there are two generations of F tuners - those which have the whole tuner casing lie flat against the back of the headstock, and those with exposed (think "outie") gears which, in order to fit in the tuner hole on the back of the headstock, requires that hole to be enlarged. This is one of those jobs that's easy to do yet easy to screw up.

The second issue is of weight - the second generation tuners are much heavier than the first gen ones. If you put two sets of RI tuners on the neck, it's going to be much more headstock-heavy.

Steve at Angela's turned me on to this second issue. The first one I found out myself the hard way!

[fullerplast]

Hello! Is this thing on?

*tap, tap*






Edit: Good point on the weight!

[Pumpkin]

They always have to complicate things don't they!These manufacturers should realize the problems "new stamping/production techniques" etc cause us guitarists,but that would actually mean caring

The only definite i can give is new klusons (gotoh) fit old (66) F tuner holes and vis-à-vis,if everyone chimes in maybe we'll narrow it down for ya'

[mezcalhead]

F-tuners changed in 1976 .. I'm not sure if the reissue F tuners (Schallers) use the later pattern or the earlier pattern. But be aware that the difference is drastic and they are not interchangable without drilling.

Drill out my headstock? F-that.

The only definite i can give is new klusons (gotoh) fit old (66) F tuner holes and vis-à-vis,if everyone chimes in maybe we'll narrow it down for ya'

That's helpful to know, although I think you mean vice versa .. apologies for the grammar nazism.

[Pumpkin]

  vi·ce ver·sa    audio  (vs vûrs, vs)  KEY 

ADVERB:
Abbr. v.v.

    With the order or meaning reversed; conversely.

ETYMOLOGY:
Latin vice vers : vice ablative of *vix, position + vers, feminine ablative of versus past participle of vertere, to turn

  vis-à-vis    audio  (vz-v)  KEY 

PREPOSITION:

  1. Face to face with; opposite to.
  2. Compared with.
  3. In relation to.

ADVERB:

    Face to face

You would be correct,You a NAZI init.

[mjet]

Here's a photo of the first-gen tuners - note that the assembly mounts flush up against the headstock. I'll try to find a similar shot of the second-gen tuners and all will be clear.

[Mr M]

thanks alot guys, i really don't mind modifying the neck a bit because i got a good deal on it and i am planning to modify the heel anyway, but i was just wondering if it was as easy as just popping the new tuners right in!

thanks again for all the helpful info!

[mjet]

Schaller (and maybe other companies) make lightweight guitar tuners especially for use with 12-string acoustics (where weight is always a problem). If you're not worried about vintage value etc. They look like stock Schaller-type tuners but the casings are made of nylon fiber. You can grab a set of those and you'll probably be fine weight-wise.



http://www.schaller-guitarparts.de/1117.htm

[Mr M]

cool thanks I'll really think about those, but there is a special place in my heart for those F tuners, i really like the look.

if i can get some of those tuners you posted for less then a lefty and righty set of F tuners then that is probably  what i'll do, but i can't say for sure right now.

thanks alot

[mjet]

I got a set of NOS nylon tuners for my Shenandoah (still in project phase) that had its F tuners stripped for around $50 on eBay last year. Why were the F tuners stripped, one might ask?

MONEY

The F tuners on those guitars were the same as were used on late 60s and early 70s Strats & Teles, and the prices are sky-high because of that.

[Mr M]

that's the reson i'm selling mine, i have no need for the original tuners for my villager neck, because i'm modifying it and using it on a electric XII i'm having made by Aug,

$150 @ a pawn shop for the Villager (only missing bridge pins and neck plate)

-$50 for the body(ebayed)

I can make money of this old beat up Villager, and still have the neck i need for this project and make alot of people happy,.... the body was in AWEFUL shape

[mjet]

I bought a Shenandoah a few months back for around $130 because the tuners were already gone. But no biggie - it'll still be a Shenandoah with the Schaller tuners on it!

Then a few days ago I won another one, this one for $220 with the tuners. Still haven't decided what to do - maybe flog the modded one locally and keep the other in case someone shows up on MTV with one someday and prices shoot up.