Can you sacrifice the Rhythm Circuit to be a coil tap?

[crazyzeke]

Excuse my ignorance with electronics but another thread in this subforum, plus trying a Player Jaguar (humbucking bridge and coil tap switch is on the top where the rhythm circuit would have been) got me thinking.

I have a Strat Hot Rails SHR-1b in the bridge of my Jag, good mod, I've always liked the tone. However, it bothers me that it can be coil tapped but isn't currently wired that way - I installed it so I know for a fact the two wires that would comprise the tap are joined and taped together in the lead circuit cavity. The practice I've seen for adding a tap without changing the controls is rewire the thin switch but to be honest, I use the thin switch all the time especially with the neck pickup (it can rein in the bass just a touch for clean funk and when using a fuzz yet be fat at all other times) so I wasn't prepared to do that. My thin switch has more range anyway because of the 1M to 500K pot switch in the lead circuit, which I've always loved.

With the Hot Rail wired to be engaged as tapped on the Rhythm Circuit, I'm thinking the darker tone from the 50K pot would actually help it not be too bright/have better bass response (most coil tap circuits I've used lose a lot of bass and get bright when split, for obvious reasons), or it could be swapped out if not, probably changing both pots to audio instead of linear and going with a 500K volume and whatever value of tone (maybe 100K or 250K) to get the best result with the tapped Hot Rail.

How much of a wiring change would be required to keep it fully humbucking in Lead circuit (including the out-of-phase sound when the RWRP SJAG-3n in the neck is engaged with both pickups on) and coil tapped in Rhythm circuit?

[dangayle]

Why not use a push/pull pot to engage the coil tap instead? That way you lose none of the existing functionality of the other switches

[MayTheFuzzBeWithYou]

Here is Fender wiring: it doesn‘t specify any more than a (or two) linear 50k knob in the rhythm - and two audio 1meg knobs in the lead…

Classic Player Wiring

So I think you should be able to turn yours basically into this. If you already have 500k pots you could as well get a push/pull as dangayle already suggested and keep the rhythm circuit. 1M push/pulls are a bit harder to find…

[crazyzeke]

Why not use a push/pull pot to engage the coil tap instead? That way you lose none of the existing functionality of the other switches

Oh! See this is why outside perspective can be priceless. It's such a simple and elegant solution.

So I think you should be able to turn yours basically into this. If you already have 500k pots you could as well get a push/pull as dangayle already suggested and keep the rhythm circuit. 1M push/pulls are a bit harder to find…

then it's lucky I like 500K pots in the lead circuit and like the tone yep.

Honestly guys, thanks for the tips, I'm gonna have a word with my tech friend who has far superior soldering skills (and to be fair can probably get the part for trade prices, I can't) and see what he thinks.

[B.T.]

Why not use a push/pull pot to engage the coil tap instead? That way you lose none of the existing functionality of the other switches

Yup, that's how I'd do it

[alexpigment]

Do any of you guys have go-to push/pull pots that don't feel cheap? I think most of the ones I've tried either started off feeling subpar, or quickly devolve into feeling subpar. Honestly, I would prefer there to be more push/push options out there, but they're fairly hard to find. I'm a big fan of the S-1 switch knobs, especially when you can get a top/cap that visually fits into the rest of the guitar. But ordering those is a huge pain in the ass - you often have to buy 3 separate pieces.

To go back to the OP's question, I sacrifice my rhythm circuit *switch* on most of my offsets for other mods. The roller knobs either stay in the guitar but disconnected (on lighter guitars), or I take them out tape black construction paper under the slots on the back of the pickguard (to lighten up a heavier guitar). If you want to repurpose the rhythm switch but tame the highs of the pickup, you can put a capacitor/resistor in there so it automatically takes the brightness off when you switch to the coil split mode. Then again, a push/pull is the least invasive and simplest method as the others mentioned, even though it would be my least favorite option for a non-knurled knob.

[crazyzeke]

Alex that opens up a potentially interesting possibility - it's been a while since I had the guitar fully open and looked at the Hot Rail (I like to leave things alone if they're working and only open to maybe spray contact cleaner in the pots or if something seems off, the Jag being my #1 I like it ready to go at all times) but could the rhythm circuit switch be repurposed as a way to choose which coil is selected when split, in conjunction with a push/pull volume pot? In fact if it makes no odds maybe the tone pot could be used for that because it would save taking off all the ground points from the volume pot as everything seems to use it, and honestly I use the tone pot way less than the volume so if it sat higher it wouldn't bother me much.

[alexpigment]

It would be fairly complex and not worth it in my opinion. The coils are so close together that there would be no meaningful sonic difference between the two. You probably just want the one that’s in phase with your neck pickup (unless you’re wanting an out of phase option). If it were my guitar, I’d rather just have a series/parallel switch for the bridge pickup, and that way you don’t have to give up the noise cancellation.

[adamrobertt]

It would be fairly complex and not worth it in my opinion. The coils are so close together that there would be no meaningful sonic difference between the two. You probably just want the one that’s in phase with your neck pickup (unless you’re wanting an out of phase option). If it were my guitar, I’d rather just have a series/parallel switch for the bridge pickup, and that way you don’t have to give up the noise cancellation.

Yeah IMO coil splitting isn't worth it most of the time. The difference is VERY subtle tonally. Series/parallel makes a way bigger difference.

[crazyzeke]

Yeah IMO coil splitting isn't worth it most of the time. The difference is VERY subtle tonally. Series/parallel makes a way bigger difference.

Good point - the only guitar that's ever had a coil split of any merit, as in it's something I use almost as much as fully humbucking, is on the PP Meteora HH, which I now own. The single coil sound on both pickups is amazing, especially when in middle position which is hum-cancelling as one must be RWRP, or perhaps it's a S-1 circuit thing. It's due a visit to a tech on Saturday for some neck/fret work and getting the pickup selector changed hopefully as at the moment I don't have a neck pickup, which is the best sound on the guitar either on it's own or with both on.

[Futuron]

the only guitar that's ever had a coil split of any merit, as in it's something I use almost as much as fully humbucking, is on the PP Meteora HH, which I now own. The single coil sound on both pickups is amazing

People usually say that Fender humbuckers either sound awful split, or awful period. I think they nailed it with those Meteora fireball pickups. The splits sound great and the full pickups are incredible when clean. (I rarely play clean, clean single coils are a bit too thin for my liking)

[crazyzeke]

the only guitar that's ever had a coil split of any merit, as in it's something I use almost as much as fully humbucking, is on the PP Meteora HH, which I now own. The single coil sound on both pickups is amazing

People usually say that Fender humbuckers either sound awful split, or awful period. I think they nailed it with those Meteora fireball pickups. The splits sound great and the full pickups are incredible when clean. (I rarely play clean, clean single coils are a bit too thin for my liking)

Cool, someone who's played and/or owned a Meteora by the sound of it! Which is it?

I maintain the Player Plus Meteora (Strat trem/Fireball pickups, what I call the Meteora Mk. III as there were two before it) are going to be majorly sought after one day because they cover a range of Fender tones while still being their own thing. They are offsets too which is nice. Downsides are weird shape makes it hard to fit in guitar stands and why oh why is the damn jack socket in such a weird place - there's a spot right on the pick guard so it could have been top mounted like on a Strat, JM or Jag.

Clean single coils are often sorted out with an adjustable clean boost - hopefully I'm not teaching you to suck eggs with that, but for me I can't play electric without a clean boost these days. On mine, if it's Jag (hot pickups) I go 12 o'clock, if it's Meteora it's more like 3 o'clock to keep the volume/gain levels consistent across pedals.

[alexpigment]

Downsides are weird shape makes it hard to fit in guitar stands and why oh why is the damn jack socket in such a weird place - there's a spot right on the pick guard so it could have been top mounted like on a Strat, JM or Jag.

At least you can get used to it over time I have two Offset Teles (one Squier, one MJT), and the jacks are in different places despite being basically the same exact shape of guitar. Confuses me every single time!

Clean single coils are often sorted out with an adjustable clean boost - hopefully I'm not teaching you to suck eggs with that, but for me I can't play electric without a clean boost these days. On mine, if it's Jag (hot pickups) I go 12 o'clock, if it's Meteora it's more like 3 o'clock to keep the volume/gain levels consistent across pedals.

Definitely a good thing to have in your signal chain. I have a TC Electronic Spark (not the mini version), and it's proven to be highly valuable when switching guitars of different output levels.

[Futuron]

Yep, got a silverburst one last year.


Regarding my single-coil sound, I use a BD-2 always-on at around 10-11 o'clock (depending) for sustain and a bit of non-nude sound. But as I hinted I have found that these fireballs are nice, smooth and substantial while fully clean.

[crazyzeke]

At least you can get used to it over time I have two Offset Teles (one Squier, one MJT), and the jacks are in different places despite being basically the same exact shape of guitar. Confuses me every single time!

I'm going for a slightly more extreme route - have the luthier move the jack socket to the pickguard and then blank off the old one



The guitar is already factory routed in such a way that it can be done - I have a feeling a few washers will need to be used to raise the socket up a bit, but it's totally doable, and finally I can use a wireless kit on it without worrying it'll fall out, a genuine concern when I've gigged this, more so when it's paid work.

Definitely a good thing to have in your signal chain. I have a TC Electronic Spark (not the mini version), and it's proven to be highly valuable when switching guitars of different output levels.

Super useful - I nearly considered having one built into the Jag but I don't see the point now as then it'll only work on that guitar, and I'd have to sacrifice the rhythm circuit.