neck pickup squeals when i put my fingers near it

[Lobsterdeth]

yes i have a small copper wire going from the brass shielding to the bridge thimbles

[andy_tchp]

I also shield the inside of the trem route and run a piece of wire connecting the shielding in there to the shielding in the control route. Cover all the bases!

To be clear, you apply shielding to the vibrato cavity itself? The mind boggles - why not just run the shielding wire wedged under the tailpiece like the factory did? There are no components in there to be effected by EMI.

[andy_tchp]

good news everyone after taking out the brass shielding, redoing the soldering, wax potting the pickups, and switching out the pots now both pickups squeal like hell without needing me to put my fingers near them
yay
https://imgur.com/a/fg2VZdT

Wait. Can you take a close up but non-blurry (still) photo showing the wiring connections of the 3-way switch? It looks a right mess but very difficult to see in the video and 'pausing' it blurs the picture.

I can vaguely make out what looks like strands of wire splayed out from the ground terminal but very difficult to see.

Also what appears to be the bridge pickup ground wire is just sitting there not actually connected to anything?

Grounding the trem ensures that there's always a ground to the strings. Some would probably say this is a bit overboard - and in most cases it is - but I think here on the forum we're specifically dealing with outlier cases a higher percentage of the time

There's 'overboard' and there's 'things that actually make a practical difference'. Fender themselves did/do it this way in many cases.

[GilmourD]

I also shield the inside of the trem route and run a piece of wire connecting the shielding in there to the shielding in the control route. Cover all the bases!

To be clear, you apply shielding to the vibrato cavity itself? The mind boggles - why not just run the shielding wire wedged under the tailpiece like the factory did? There are no components in there to be effected by EMI.

You know... I honestly actually started thinking about that before after I posted that reply... I think I saw it somewhere and just kinda ran with it.

[alexpigment]

Grounding the trem ensures that there's always a ground to the strings. Some would probably say this is a bit overboard - and in most cases it is - but I think here on the forum we're specifically dealing with outlier cases a higher percentage of the time

There's 'overboard' and there's 'things that actually make a practical difference'. Fender themselves did/do it this way in many cases.

To be clear, I just meant because of the potential work and/or jank factor. Getting a long drill bit to go through at the correct angle angle can be a bit tricky, and running a wire over the body can be a bit odd looking. I've got exactly 1 offset that needed grounding at the trem, and the other 5 are fine being grounded at the bridge post. I personally went with the jazz bass grounding strip aesthetic as a quick fix, and it looks fine to me, so it stayed.

[Lobsterdeth]

Wait. Can you take a close up but non-blurry (still) photo showing the wiring connections of the 3-way switch? It looks a right mess but very difficult to see in the video and 'pausing' it blurs the picture.

I can vaguely make out what looks like strands of wire splayed out from the ground terminal but very difficult to see.

Also what appears to be the bridge pickup ground wire is just sitting there not actually connected to anything?

here is the requested photo, hope it's clear enough:


and i include some extra shots in case anything seems out of place too:




the bridge pickup's ground is soldered right below the pickup, at the solder point that joins the cavity grounding plate with the brass shield, and the neck pickup's ground is soldered right below the neck pickup, at the solder point that joins the cavity grounding plate to the brass shield, i didn't add any extra solder points to the brass shield

i had resoldered some of the contact points recently cause some were shoddy/strandy like you said, i did this when i removed the wire that was "grounding" the input sleeve to the back of the tone pot, which in turn was the last update, it made the squealing go away but replaced it with really loud hum

hope somebody can help me out here!!!!!

[crazyzeke]

yes i know single coils hum when you put your hands near them

Maybe not these days... I don't have one but this could work well :-





I'm curious to see if it's 60 cycle only, or if there's a DIP switch inside that can toggle for 50 cycle as well, or better still if the pedal is smart enough in terms of circuitry to just do both regardless - looks like it covers 40Hz-60Hz from the spec but real-world usage versus what a sheet says eh.

Anyone got one? YouTube reviews only take you so far.

Grounding the trem ensures that there's always a ground to the strings. Some would probably say this is a bit overboard - and in most cases it is - but I think here on the forum we're specifically dealing with outlier cases a higher percentage of the time

I don't think it's overboard at all personally - it's just good practice because you're removing another potential problem and as we all know, guitars and pedals and amps have enough of their own as it is, so anything that works to prevent it in the first place is a smart move. My Jag grounds via the volume pot and then the volume pot grounds to the vibrato plate and combined with a bridge humbucker in the form of a Hot Rail, it tends to be silent with no hum even with a lot of gain going. Usually any noise is coming from everything else (wireless kits often adds high band hiss as mine does, certain reverb pans in amps can induce slight but noticeable mains hum when cranked) while the guitar is solid. Never had a Seymour Duncan pickup that introduces problems when fitted, they're never microphonic and most of them sound great so that's why I tend to use them.

[crazyzeke]

and i include some extra shots in case anything seems out of place too:

I'm far and away not an expert here but there's a few things which caught my eye. Firstly, that looks like good quality braided cable, and secondly unless the photos are misleading it looks like there's a lot of excess, i.e. the cables are too long. I think the accepted rule is make cable runs for pickups etc as short as you can get away with but not so short it's a nightmare taking the pickguard etc on and off.

[GilmourD]

Unfortunately, you're nowhere near me geographically, otherwise I would offer to meet up with you and take a look at this... There's gotta be something I'm missing by virtue of not actually having it in my hands...

[alexpigment]

Maybe not these days... I don't have one but this could work well :-




I'm curious to see if it's 60 cycle only, or if there's a DIP switch inside that can toggle for 50 cycle as well, or better still if the pedal is smart enough in terms of circuitry to just do both regardless - looks like it covers 40Hz-60Hz from the spec but real-world usage versus what a sheet says eh.

Anyone got one? YouTube reviews only take you so far.

I own one, but don’t use it anymore. It introduces weird sort of slapback delay artifacts, especially on the 2nd mode (more hum suppression mode). This may not be as obvious when playing clean, but once you add OD, you hear it. No clue how it works on 50hz power, but I don’t think it really is specific to that sort of hum. It seems to filter out generic EMI (e.g. dimmer switch noise, etc).

I do wonder how well the ISP Hum Extractor + Decimator G pedal works. It does have a noise gate built in, but I think you can turn that off.

[timtam]

...
when i removed the wire that was "grounding" the input sleeve to the back of the tone pot, which in turn was the last update, it made the squealing go away but replaced it with really loud hum

hope somebody can help me out here!!!!!

I would solder the pickup direct to the output jack (the latter completely separated from the pickguard). To see if you can get it to function OK on its own. If so, you could then start adding bits back in until the problem is triggered again (or not).

[GilmourD]

...
when i removed the wire that was "grounding" the input sleeve to the back of the tone pot, which in turn was the last update, it made the squealing go away but replaced it with really loud hum

hope somebody can help me out here!!!!!

I would solder the pickup direct to the output jack (the latter completely separated from the pickguard). To see if you can get it to function OK on its own. If so, you could then start adding bits back in until the problem is triggered again (or not).

Some of the weird noises in the videos kinda remind me of what happens when you plug a wah pedal in backwards (think the bird noises in Pink Floyd's Echoes). Something's weird electrically and it's not anywhere near 60Hz (which I believe is what Mexico's AC cycle is) or a harmonic thereof.

[andy_tchp]

OK thanks for that. 3-way terminals look 'fine'. A (possibly) dumb question to follow:

Does this persist when you re-assemble everything fully, including tightening the pickguard screws down?

The circuit (especially the grounding scheme) is not complete until the shielding on the pickguard connects to the shielding in the cavities (in this case via the thimble wire, that must also have a solid connection to the cavity shielding tub).

In short: 'Ground is ground', but all ground points must have continuity with each other to the ground on the output jack. When they don't, ungrounded shielding tends to achieve opposite of the desired effect and works more like an antenna to introduce noise into the signal.


EDIT: I know Fender did this ex-factory, but I really don't love soldering to shielding tubs. These joints to the shielding you have are definitely 'good' and form a solid mechanical connection? You should be able to pull firmly on those leads and have the body of the guitar move when you try it.

YMMV but I prefer to take the pickup ground wire and twist most of the length together with the pickup 'hot' wire (doing so can also provide a modest rejection of interference/noise) and then solder both pickup ground wires to the nice big ground terminal on the 3-way switch instead. It's a better thing to solder to and tidies up the lead dress inside the guitar substantially (4 wires as 2 x twisted pairs routed to the same switch).

[Lobsterdeth]

thanks everyone for the replies
i cleaned up some of the solder joints and in general, the volume of the hum that i'm getting seems to be the regular amount you get when you play your single coil guitars through marshall amps/preamps, compared to other single coil instruments i own

with that said, it seems that the middle position still presents some squealing, and the pickups still don't like it at all when my fingers/palm are anywhere near them as the hum gets way loud if i do

OK thanks for that. 3-way terminals look 'fine'. A (possibly) dumb question to follow:

Does this persist when you re-assemble everything fully, including tightening the pickguard screws down?

The circuit (especially the grounding scheme) is not complete until the shielding on the pickguard connects to the shielding in the cavities (in this case via the thimble wire, that must also have a solid connection to the cavity shielding tub).

In short: 'Ground is ground', but all ground points must have continuity with each other to the ground on the output jack. When they don't, ungrounded shielding tends to achieve opposite of the desired effect and works more like an antenna to introduce noise into the signal.


EDIT: I know Fender did this ex-factory, but I really don't love soldering to shielding tubs. These joints to the shielding you have are definitely 'good' and form a solid mechanical connection? You should be able to pull firmly on those leads and have the body of the guitar move when you try it.

YMMV but I prefer to take the pickup ground wire and twist most of the length together with the pickup 'hot' wire (doing so can also provide a modest rejection of interference/noise) and then solder both pickup ground wires to the nice big ground terminal on the 3-way switch instead. It's a better thing to solder to and tidies up the lead dress inside the guitar substantially (4 wires as 2 x twisted pairs routed to the same switch).

the hum honestly gets just the tiniest bit better when i finally assemble everything together, i made a recording of the three positions and the hum (and you can hear a bit of the middle position squeal too) that i'm getting through a pignose 1x12 and marshall-in-a-box pedal (i never play with no gain my "clean" tone is mascis style i.e. always overdriven)

https://files.catbox.moe/jwnc6s.mp3

the shielding tub solder joints are very solid, i redid them before putting in the whole thing back into the guitar again after refinishing, and i can pull the wires without them becoming undone no problem

do you still leave the 3-way switch ground wired to the shielding tub? because i might just try that

the pickups still picking up my hand and squealing in the middle position are making me think that even after wax potting them they mighta just gone completely microphonic though...

[andy_tchp]

do you still leave the 3-way switch ground wired to the shielding tub? because i might just try that

No, I never ground it that way; the 3-way switch is grounded through the pickguard shielding so a separate ground wire is unnecessary.