Vintera JM pickups - bridge / neck.

[PeteC]

Annoying, but can anyone help? I've just swapped the pickups in my Vintera Jazzmaster (standard model, not the Modified one) and I'm keeping the old stock pickups for a build I've just started... But, like an idiot I forgot to mark which was neck and bridge.. They both look identical to me except for "8" written on the back of one in white, and "D7" written on the other in black (this also has something written in white, but it's smudged and illegible).. I've not got around to getting a multi-meter yet, so.... Any ideas???

Thanks.

[HarlowTheFish]

Are the wires different colors? On my Mustang the neck was yellow/black and the bridge was white/black.

[PeteC]

Are the wires different colors? On my Mustang the neck was yellow/black and the bridge was white/black.

I wish they were, but nope - both black & white 🥴

[Bradley-Jazz]

This is a bit sketchy, but might work if you've no meter...

Sticky tape the wires of each pickup to separate guitar leads' jack plugs - black to sleeve, white to tip (though that will probably not matter in this instance), making sure that there is metal to metal contact. You can then alternately plug each pickup into an amp without changing the amp's settings. The bridge pickup will probably be wound with a higher output to compensate for reduced string movement at the bridge. If you tap the poles with a screwdriver, or bring a sounding metal tuning fork in close, you may hear one pickup as louder than the other - the louder one will be the bridge.

Don't forget to clean any tape sticky off the plugs after!

[alexpigment]

On JM pickups, usually the neck pickup has shorter wires since the distance to the switch is very small. Not sure if that applies to the Vintera or not, but that's my experience.

[Embenny]

If you're building a guitar as you just mentioned, go ahead and get a multimeter ASAP. They're absolutely essential tools and I couldn't live without one - even if I didn't build and mod guitars. But, I do a ton of guitar wiring, and quite literally could not imagine even attempting any of it without a multimeter.

[timtam]

In some guitars, neck and bridge are the same pickup. That's not the case if they are a RWRP pair, or different wind counts, different magnet types, or have different pole piece spacing, etc. In this case it's likely that the only difference is that they're RWRP, like most JMs. People quibble about whether or not RWRP pairs sound any different to non-RWRP pairs (more reasons to think not). In any case, with a pair that is RWRP, it shouldn't matter which is north up and which is south up .... it's most likely just manufacturer convention as to which magnetic polarity is placed as the neck and which as the bridge. So chances are it doesn't matter which you use as neck or bridge.

In any case, for a RWRP JM pair, magnetic polarity is usually north up for the neck and south up for bridge. First to confirm that they are indeed a RWRP pair, bring the tops towards each other and they should attract (opposites attract). Then with a compass you can determine each's polarity - again because opposites attract, the compass needle end that’s pointing away from the pickup's top indicates its magnetic polarity ...
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/ ... p-polarity

Black wire is ground and white is hot for both in the Vintera JM ...
https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Orig ... 1_2019.pdf
Incidentally the Vintera's pickups are new part numbers - 7716107000 / 7716108000 - so far only used in the Vintera.

The multimeter doesn't help you much with this issue, but vital for lots of other stuff. If you check the DCR (resistance) of the two pickups, it should be about the same (given maybe a couple of hundred ohms +/- tolerance), as with most JM pickups. It would also allow you to get the overall phase of each pickup, so you'd know they'd be in phase before wiring; but you already know that here: white (hot) and black (ground) for both gives you an in-phase pair. In any case you could still confirm relative phase using the screwdriver test and a digital multimeter - see below. When pickups are in phase they should deflect in the same direction, whether they are RWRP or not.
Using resistance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lFQzmRvePc
Using DC volts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UfxQBhqen8
But phase determination works best with a +/- 50 uA analog ammeter (~$10 for the meter and no need for power) ...
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/ ... ter-part-1

[PeteC]

This is a bit sketchy, but might work if you've no meter...

Sticky tape the wires of each pickup to separate guitar leads' jack plugs - black to sleeve, white to tip (though that will probably not matter in this instance), making sure that there is metal to metal contact. You can then alternately plug each pickup into an amp without changing the amp's settings. The bridge pickup will probably be wound with a higher output to compensate for reduced string movement at the bridge. If you tap the poles with a screwdriver, or bring a sounding metal tuning fork in close, you may hear one pickup as louder than the other - the louder one will be the bridge.

Don't forget to clean any tape sticky off the plugs after!

I thought of doing that at just about the same time you poster this! I've a feeling that they might both be the same with regards to resistance though (as mentioned in other comments)?? A few methods there though, so much appreciated!

[PeteC]

On JM pickups, usually the neck pickup has shorter wires since the distance to the switch is very small. Not sure if that applies to the Vintera or not, but that's my experience.

Ug... Just checked and they both have the same length wires - thanks tho

[PeteC]

If you're building a guitar as you just mentioned, go ahead and get a multimeter ASAP. They're absolutely essential tools and I couldn't live without one - even if I didn't build and mod guitars. But, I do a ton of guitar wiring, and quite literally could not imagine even attempting any of it without a multimeter.

Yeah I can imagine - I'm going to get one this week - should make things a bit easier.

[PeteC]

In some guitars, neck and bridge are the same pickup. That's not the case if they are a RWRP pair, or different wind counts, different magnet types, or have different pole piece spacing, etc. In this case it's likely that the only difference is that they're RWRP, like most JMs. People quibble about whether or not RWRP pairs sound any different to non-RWRP pairs (more reasons to think not). In any case, with a pair that is RWRP, it shouldn't matter which is north up and which is south up .... it's most likely just manufacturer convention as to which magnetic polarity is placed as the neck and which as the bridge. So chances are it doesn't matter which you use as neck or bridge.

In any case, for a RWRP JM pair, magnetic polarity is usually north up for the neck and south up for bridge. First to confirm that they are indeed a RWRP pair, bring the tops towards each other and they should attract (opposites attract). Then with a compass you can determine each's polarity - again because opposites attract, the compass needle end that’s pointing away from the pickup's top indicates its magnetic polarity ...
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/ ... p-polarity

Black wire is ground and white is hot for both in the Vintera JM ...
https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Orig ... 1_2019.pdf
Incidentally the Vintera's pickups are new part numbers - 7716107000 / 7716108000 - so far only used in the Vintera.

The multimeter doesn't help you much with this issue, but vital for lots of other stuff. If you check the DCR (resistance) of the two pickups, it should be about the same (given maybe a couple of hundred ohms +/- tolerance), as with most JM pickups. It would also allow you to get the overall phase of each pickup, so you'd know they'd be in phase before wiring; but you already know that here: white (hot) and black (ground) for both gives you an in-phase pair. In any case you could still confirm relative phase using the screwdriver test and a digital multimeter - see below. When pickups are in phase they should deflect in the same direction, whether they are RWRP or not.
Using resistance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lFQzmRvePc
Using DC volts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UfxQBhqen8
But phase determination works best with a +/- 50 uA analog ammeter (~$10 for the meter and no need for power) ...
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/ ... ter-part-1

Thanks for all that info - much appreciated! I know they are definitely RWRP as the middle position cut out any hum when they were in the guitar, so that's all good. Also, the live and ground wires are on the opposite sides for each pickup, so I assume that means they are wound in opposing directions or something? Anyhow, so it's just finding out their polarity, and possibly the resistance (to confirm they are the same), which I'll do when my multimeter arrives!!

Thanks for your help - great stuff there for future reference

[PeteC]

Thanks to everyone for your replies - a wealth of info!!

Think I sorted it in a far easier way tho - I noticed earlier that the ground and hot wires (black and white) are on the opposite side for each pickup - I've just checked through several pictures of JM pickups in situ on the pickguard, and it seems that the hot lead is closest to the neck with the neck pickup, and closest to the bridge on the bridge pickup - this was the same for every picture I checked! So, as is often the case, the answer was right there in front of me 🥴

https://reverb-res.cloudinary.com/image ... tfqp3j.jpg

Anyhow - if anyone else can confirm this then that's probably the issue solved for all JM pickups??

Thanks again..

[timtam]

Yes ... looking again at the white and black wires on the neck and bridge pickups in the Vintera PDF diagram I linked, there's only one possible designation of neck and bridge where the wires end up that way.

[PeteC]

Yes ... looking again at the white and black wires on the neck and bridge pickups in the Vintera PDF diagram I linked, there's only one possible designation of neck and bridge where the wires end up that way.

Sorted!!!!! Thanks for your help everyone!