Hard Luck Setup

[Cajun]

I’m not optimistic. I can’t get rid of the buzz without having the bridge set super high and a good bit of neck relief. Something must be wrong. I’m pretty frustrated.

[timtam]

I’m also curious how fret leveling works if the strings are not providing tension. Does the string tension change the fret levels? I realize this is a dumb question.

Not a dumb question. Even the pros argue about the best way to do this. Simplest and possibly the most common is to get the fretboard flat with the truss rod before you start, using a notched straight edge with the strings off. Then you level with a relatively narrow, long, flat levelling beam. Then you re-crown the frets, re-string, and set relief again. Some pros use the expensive Stewmac neck jig instead, which holds the neck in a similar curve to what it had with strings on. Then there are a few 'understring' levelling approaches, that level with the strings on (either with normal relief, and using a curved-relief beam, or flattened first and using a flat beam). Finally, it is likely that many cheaper guitars are levelled at the factory with a radius sanding block.

[andy_tchp]

Simplest and possibly the most common is to get the fretboard flat with the truss rod before you start, using a notched straight edge with the strings off. Then you level with a relatively narrow, long, flat levelling beam. Then you re-crown the frets, re-string, and set relief again.

Yep. I figure if it's good enough for Ron Kirn, it's good enough for me (he doesn't even use the notched straight edge to ensure the neck is flat, he gives the levelling beam a quick nudge to make sure material is being removed across the board).

Fret leveling yer tele 101 - Ron Kirn on TDPRI

And the results speak for themselves. Every single guitar I've done a level/recrown on has played remarkably better across the entire fretboard, whether an expensive or cheap instrument was the starting point (first guitar I tried on was my CIJ Jazzmaster, definite leap of faith!)

The crowning file was the only expensive part, but I chose one of the more expensive options from Stew-Mac. The precision milled levelling beam was about $30 off eBay.

Depending on the levelling required, you'll need to cut the nut slots a little lower. If the nut has never received attention, it'll definitely need the slots cut lower, as even on brand new instruments they're always too high to get things sounding sweet on the lower frets.

[timtam]

I’m not optimistic. I can’t get rid of the buzz without having the bridge set super high and a good bit of neck relief. Something must be wrong. I’m pretty frustrated.

Yeah it can be frustrating. Worse given the experience with your tech (I assume you don't want to take it back for them to fix the state they left it in ?). If you approach setup systematically in order, you get it to the best state you can, and then you can look for the things that are stopping it from being right (eg a high fret); rather than continuing to fiddle with adjustments at that point. As others have suggested, you need some simple tools, and the ability to measure what you're achieving (ie what the actual relief is, with feeler gauges, and what the action is at the 12th* and 1st frets). Start with Fender's instructions ...
https://support.fender.com/hc/en-us/art ... -properly-
*Fender says to measure action at the 17th fret (and some people think they're suggesting to leave the first fret capo on from the relief measurement, others don't). But more people use the 12th fret , and no capo. 1st fret action tells you if the nut slots are too high (the main symptom of which will be the first few frets playing out of tune).

[Scout]

Is your guitar brand new?

[Scout]

You do realize that Jazzmasters are buzzy guitars?

[adamrobertt]

You do realize that Jazzmasters are buzzy guitars?

Uh, no? My JM doesn't buzz any more than any of my other guitars. You just gotta know how to set it up. It isn't really that hard, just a couple things you have to take into consideration.

[Cajun]

Is your guitar brand new?

I bought it used off of Reverb, but it’s a mint 2019 model. The seller never played it. It’s basically new.

[Cajun]

I’m not optimistic. I can’t get rid of the buzz without having the bridge set super high and a good bit of neck relief. Something must be wrong. I’m pretty frustrated.

Yeah it can be frustrating. Worse given the experience with your tech (I assume you don't want to take it back for them to fix the state they left it in ?). If you approach setup systematically in order, you get it to the best state you can, and then you can look for the things that are stopping it from being right (eg a high fret); rather than continuing to fiddle with adjustments at that point. As others have suggested, you need some simple tools, and the ability to measure what you're achieving (ie what the actual relief is, with feeler gauges, and what the action is at the 12th* and 1st frets). Start with Fender's instructions ...
https://support.fender.com/hc/en-us/art ... -properly-
*Fender says to measure action at the 17th fret (and some people think they're suggesting to leave the first fret capo on from the relief measurement, others don't). But more people use the 12th fret , and no capo. 1st fret action tells you if the nut slots are too high (the main symptom of which will be the first few frets playing out of tune).

Thanks for this.

[Cajun]

You do realize that Jazzmasters are buzzy guitars?

Only the frets buzz. Everything else is fine.

[Scout]

Okay,just the frets buzz, that’s what I was getting at with the buzz question. A little neck relief goes a long way if the frets aren’t entirely level. You can check it out without any tools by fretting at the first fret and down where the neck joins the body , you should see a small gap, paper is .004 or so for instance,shine a light to see the gap, about the 7th fret or so. If you don’t see light, you should loosen the truss rod. The truss rod counteracts the pull of the strings. That would be my first step, other people will do it differently. Not scientific but it will get you started. Fret dressing is a different process and does require measurements and is easiest with the correct tools.

[jorri]

*Fender says to measure action at the 17th fret (and some people think they're suggesting to leave the first fret capo on from the relief measurement, others don't). But more people use the 12th fret , and no capo. 1st fret action tells you if the nut slots are too high (the main symptom of which will be the first few frets playing out of tune).

I've never heard that but it could make sense. Taking nut out the equation. Difference is small but would increase those values leaving capo on.
However I can say fenders suggestions can be low. I use almost 2.4-2mm. Others expecting shredder guitars may find them high. I expect to assault my guitar and use slides or play in a more jazz style.
And it's not really to do with radius. That part in the guide is a bit random. Yes there could be more buzz when bending but would not be a sole determining factor of action. Pick any number between let's say 1.2 and 3.2mm from taste, ears, fingers, Fret quality. I'd prob start with 2-1.6 as a benchmark on any guitar just to know where to start.

[Cajun]

I really hate to be an annoying newb, but I’m pretty frustrated. Woke up this morning and started fiddling with it again. Truss Rod is set where with capo on first fret and holding down the 17th, there is the slightest gap at the 7th/8th fret. The bridge saddles are set to the radius (from the shoddy setup) and are lacquered in, so there’s no moving them. This leaves me raising the bridge itself. I have to raise, tune, raise, tune, a ton to finally get the low E and A to stop buzzing. The high side has no problem. When I get it high enough, the strings are way too high to be comfortable. Is this just how these guitars are meant to be played? Should the bridge be level, or is it ok to raise the low side higher than the high side so the high strings aren’t insanely high? I don’t see why I couldn’t get a low action on here. I don’t have any obviously high frets. As noted, I’m doing this without measuring tools, but I have a feeling that this guitar would buzz at Fender spec. So annoying. I’m going to have to put it down for a while and reassess whether it’s a guitar I want to keep. Such a shame because I was really excited about it.

[jorri]

It's fine if not expected for the treble side to be lower. I presume the saddles are machined so it's equal on all strings so yes, lower the treble side.

Slightest gap means little. Neck relief is specific. Feeler guages tell you. Never had anything but feeling 10-12 thou is just where guitars are meant to be set to. Holding down last Fret with capo on 1st,measured at 8th.

The place where buzz is tells you what to adjust pretty much.

[Cajun]

It's fine if not expected for the treble side to be lower. I presume the saddles are machined so it's equal on all strings so yes, lower the treble side.

Slightest gap means little. Neck relief is specific. Feeler guages tell you. Never had anything but feeling 10-12 thou is just where guitars are meant to be set to. Holding down last Fret with capo on 1st,measured at 8th.

The place where buzz is tells you what to adjust pretty much.

Thanks. I think I’ll just set it aside until I get some measuring tools.