Tuning Stability Attainable without Lubrication?

[ek11sx]

Hi all,

I have found that tuning stability is impossible without lubing the nut and saddles of my guitar. Has anyone experienced something different?

Set up:
Am Pro Jazzmaster
Mastery bridge
Mastery vibrato
Schaller locking tuners
GHS 11-50 strings

[Embenny]

In my experience, if lubricating the nut is necessary, there's a good chance it's not cut properly.

I've never lubricated a Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge in my life. Mastery has worked fine for me, and the standard rocking style of bridge (staytrem, Mustang, stock, etc) certainly doesn't need it.

[alexpigment]

I don't think *all* guitars need lubrication, either due to the specific components on the guitar, how well cut/machined everything is, the material the nut is made of, etc. However, lubrication can do magic for things that aren't exactly perfect on a guitar, and most guitars fall into that camp in my experience. So given that nice tube of nut lubricant costs less than $20, and cheap solutions exist for under $5, it's really worth trying before you go out and swap parts or have your nut re-slotted (which, by the way, is certainly not a guarantee on improvement). You're probably in for $50 at minimum for a set of nut files or having a professional file the slots for you. My tube of Big Bends Nut Sauce has paid for itself many times over.

As for the bridge saddles, I really only lube them regularly if the saddles have sharp edges (e.g. a Tune O Matic). Smooth-edge saddles I'll lube the first time and then probably not again for a long time. String trees are a good candidate for lubrication. And nut slots I just lube every time I change strings. It's so trivial that I don't see any point in not doing it.

[alexpigment]

Set up:
Am Pro Jazzmaster
Mastery bridge
Mastery vibrato
Schaller locking tuners
GHS 11-50 strings

I'm also going to guess that several - if not all - of these upgrades were done in a quest to get your guitar to stay in tune, right? And ultimately, it just came down to some lubrication.

[Embenny]

Well, a rocking/floating bridge shouldn't ever need to be replaced to improve tuning stability, but that's another matter.

Considering the guitar comes stock with a lighter gauge of strings, I stand by slotting the nut as the most important first step. If the slots weren't filed, those 11's are going to be binding at the nut for sure.

If you're paying someone else to do it, might as well just throw on a graphtech nut while you're at it, since they're self-lubricating. They're one of my favourite (and cheapest) upgrades for any guitar. I invested in a set of nut files ages ago, and widening the slots (and often deepening them, as many guitars come from the factory with super high nuts that cause intonation issues when fretting the first fret from the string stretching downward) is basically my first move for any guitar.

So maybe that why I'm not so into lubrication. I prefer my bridges to float (staytrem, mustang, though I do have a mastery or two) and I replace any plastic nut with a graphtech one. If it's a nice bone nut or it's beneath the binding or neck finish I'll often make do by just widening and smoothing the slot.

Nice nut work is only secondary to nice fret work in it's importance to how a guitar plays IMO, but I see SO many expensive guitars with bad nut jobs. It's super overlooked.

[alexpigment]

Well, a rocking/floating bridge shouldn't ever need to be replaced to improve tuning stability, but that's another matter.

Considering the guitar comes stock with a lighter gauge of strings, I stand by slotting the nut as the most important first step. If the slots weren't filed, those 11's are going to be binding at the nut for sure.

If you're paying someone else to do it, might as well just throw on a graphtech nut while you're at it, since they're self-lubricating. They're one of my favourite (and cheapest) upgrades for any guitar. I invested in a set of nut files ages ago, and widening the slots (and often deepening them, as many guitars come from the factory with super high nuts that cause intonation issues when fretting the first fret from the string stretching downward) is basically my first move for any guitar.

So maybe that why I'm not so into lubrication. I prefer my bridges to float (staytrem, mustang, though I do have a mastery or two) and I replace any plastic nut with a graphtech one. If it's a nice bone nut or it's beneath the binding or neck finish I'll often make do by just widening and smoothing the slot.

Nice nut work is only secondary to nice fret work in it's importance to how a guitar plays IMO, but I see SO many expensive guitars with bad nut jobs. It's super overlooked.

I disagree with nothing said here. I will only add that nut lubricant will allow a guitar with less-than-perfectly filed slots to stay in tune. And over time, that lubricant allows the strings to glide easily and file the slots on their own. Maybe that's a controversial opinion, but I can only speak from my experience. Of course, if the strings are too high or low in the slots, a filing is definitely a must.

[ek11sx]

Set up:
Am Pro Jazzmaster
Mastery bridge
Mastery vibrato
Schaller locking tuners
GHS 11-50 strings

I'm also going to guess that several - if not all - of these upgrades were done in a quest to get your guitar to stay in tune, right? And ultimately, it just came down to some lubrication.

The locking tuners were ordered before I even received the guitar but the rest of the upgrades were purchased in hope that they were an upgrade to the standard hardware. The mastery bridge was primarily a solution to the string spacing problem I saw

[alexpigment]

The locking tuners were ordered before I even received the guitar but the rest of the upgrades were purchased in hope that they were an upgrade to the standard hardware. The mastery bridge was primarily a solution to the string spacing problem I saw

Gotcha. The hardware on the American Pro is actually pretty solid from what I've seen, although I heard that the earlier models had the wider spaced bridge. Fortunately, the narrower spaced ones are readily available now, and are a pretty nice option for upgrading other guitars.

[ek11sx]

The locking tuners were ordered before I even received the guitar but the rest of the upgrades were purchased in hope that they were an upgrade to the standard hardware. The mastery bridge was primarily a solution to the string spacing problem I saw

Gotcha. The hardware on the American Pro is actually pretty solid from what I've seen, although I heard that the earlier models had the wider spaced bridge. Fortunately, the narrower spaced ones are readily available now, and are a pretty nice option for upgrading other guitars.

The one I got was NOS from 2017. Did they really come out with new bridges with better string spacing?

[alexpigment]

The locking tuners were ordered before I even received the guitar but the rest of the upgrades were purchased in hope that they were an upgrade to the standard hardware. The mastery bridge was primarily a solution to the string spacing problem I saw

Gotcha. The hardware on the American Pro is actually pretty solid from what I've seen, although I heard that the earlier models had the wider spaced bridge. Fortunately, the narrower spaced ones are readily available now, and are a pretty nice option for upgrading other guitars.

The one I got was NOS from 2017. Did they really come out with new bridges with better string spacing?

Yep. They've been selling them for at least a year now. You can get them at Darren Riley's site:

https://darrenriley.com/store/fender-am ... 709942000/

I used to see them sell sometimes for around $70, but they've been going for $80 consistently these days. That's still a hell of a lot cheaper than other options, and not terribly different than the Staytrems I own.

[ek11sx]

Wow thanks for the info. I got one to have on hand

[timtam]

I invested in a set of nut files ages ago, and widening the slots (and often deepening them, as many guitars come from the factory with super high nuts that cause intonation issues when fretting the first fret from the string stretching downward) is basically my first move for any guitar.

Indeed. Always good to remember that high nut action, and incorrectly-set intonation at the saddles, can masquerade as 'tuning' problems.

[lhwarp]

Hi all,

I have found that tuning stability is impossible without lubing the nut and saddles of my guitar. Has anyone experienced something different?

Set up:
Am Pro Jazzmaster
Mastery bridge
Mastery vibrato
Schaller locking tuners
GHS 11-50 strings

Yes. Not the exact same guitar but on a way much cheaper models : Harley-Benton MS-60LH VW (the two center and right below) :



Where :

- I used a TUSQ XL PQL-5000-L0 (LH) permanent Teflon lubricated nut.
- I used a roller bridge (generic chinese by Vanson) on which I corrected the backlash.
- I corrected the backlash on the bridge studs.
- I rounded, smoothed and polished the pivot edge on the tremolo hinge (original chinese-made Harley-Benton) and gently lubricated the contact with high pressure industrial grease (Molydal).
- I tin the strings at the ball end.
- I clamp the strings around the tuners (Kluson MK6RN tuners, non-locking).
- I use 11-54 plain G Ernie Ball Beefy Slinky strings in normal tuning.

And the tuning stability is flawless , despite my use and abuse of the tremolo in reharsal and on stage...

When I had those guitars (bought 2nd hand) they were simply unplayable, without any stability in tuning, etc... That's probably why their owners sold it for peanuts, I guess...

So don't worry, @ek11sx, it's doable : you should sort your tuning problem as I did !

-lhwarp

[Debaser]

IME, no, almost all vibratos benefit from lubrication.

Even if a guitar has roller bridge and nut, one should not assume those rollers are sealed with lubricant for life.

The most perfectly cut nut is still a friction point. Same thing stands for a bridge. Eliminate these friction points and you have a Floyd Rose. As mentioned though, consider the original design aspects of a JM/Jag/Mustang bridge--it rocks. Same with a rocking bar bridge--lube is generally not needed.

[Danley]

Vibratos (can) benefit from an application of say lithium grease, especially Floyds. Not so much nuts or saddles imo, unless something else is wrong; I’ve got plenty of guitars to stay right in tune without lubricating the nut.

Question: Why do people not like the wider spaced bridge? Is it because of alignment issues with the tailpiece or just a preference thing? I use vintage/AVRI bridges and vibratos, everything lines up and is comfortable that way (and a Jaguar/Jazzmaster bridge has in effect adjustable spacing anyway.) I tend to dislike narrow bridge spacing.