Jag Setup (New to Offsets)

[Kroc]

Hey all!

I just this week picked up a used Fender American Original 60s Jaguar (2017 I believe). It's my first offset, and I'm totally in love with it already! The previous owner had put on 10-48 D'Addario Chromes flatwounds (something else I hadn't tried yet), and I'm really digging the warmth and punch (seems to balance out the guitar's brightness well). I'm also really liking the pickup circuits and don't find them nearly as complex or eccentric as the hype would suggest. I was reading a few other threads (like the bridge FAQ), but I have a few questions of my own. I haven't really messed with the setups of my other guitars in case I happen to get in over my head and render something unplayable, but I've been tinkering with this one as an opportunity to learn.

The previous owner had the bridge tilted back on an angle, with the posts right up against the back of the bridge thimbles, as he said he had found that to be the most reliable way to get the tremolo to return in tune. I played with it that way for about a day, but strangely found after a while that the strings were buzzing against the front bridge lip (I guess that bridge was sinking or something?). So I reset everything with the bridge dead upright (as it says in the bridge FAQ). I got a clip-on Peterson Strobe and got the intonation pretty tight. It seems to play pretty well now. I was getting a bit of bridge buzz, but found I could get rid of it by just moving the bridge around a little bit to shift the posts out of contact with the thimbles. I then also put electrical tape around the posts to help dampen rattles.

It's playing pretty well now. The G seems to drift flat sometimes, and occasionally pings when retuned, so I'm wondering if the nut slots haven't been adjusted since the Chromes (with their heavier low strings and wound third) were put on. I'm thinking that I may need to find a good luthier near NYC/north Jersey/northeast PA to take a look at that (if anyone has recommendations), because that's probably something better done by someone with experience.

The main things I'm curious about (again, totally new to offsets, so my apologies):
- I've read a few things about the stock bridge being problematic. I don't mind it so far, and I'm not sure how many of the classic Jag issues have been addressed with this reissue (the previous owner said that this one plays better than several other reissues he had before). The one thing that concerns me is the intonation. Seeing the bridge is literally just held in place by string tension and has room to move back and forth, is it possible that you could accidentally bump it a few millimeters out of place and totally throw the whole intonation out? I like the sound, and I don't really want to switch the bridge if I don't need to; but I will be gigging and recording with it, so reliability is also important.

- I hadn't used the vintage style tuning heads before (with the hole in the middle), and was initially a little confused by them. So I ordered a set of Gotoh Vintage Style Locking Tuners. Then I actually retuned the guitar and found that the stock tuners are pretty neat and not nearly as odd as I assumed they were just at first glance. So I'm tempted to just return the locking ones. Would locking tuners give any extra tuning stability over the stock tuners?

Any other general pointers for set up would be much appreciated.

Cheers,
Dan

[timtam]

Your vintage-style bridge is the 0054460000 that dates back to the AVRI series in 1999 and has been continuously used since.
https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Orig ... 6-2017.pdf
https://darrenriley.com/store/fender-am ... 054460049/
Many people find them fine. Some like them to rock fully as they were designed to do, while others restrict rocking. Increased down force / break angle generally helps bridge operation, which sometimes requires a tapered neck shim (and resulting higher bridge), but your AO's neck pocket may already have been cut that way (?).

Others prefer Staytrem bridges, Mastery, or lately the new version of the Staytrem-like Johnny Marr bridge (7712971000), which is probably the best 7.25" radius Mustang-like bridge that Fender now makes.
EDIT: Wrong re the Marr bridge ... I forgot that the AO has 9.5" radius - see later post below.

If your strings are sometimes fouling the front edge of the bridge you may want to try lowering the bridge a tad and raising the saddles to clear it. Once you find your sweet spot it's often good to fix the screw heights in place with blue Loctite or clear nail polish.

Trem setup here ...
https://offset.guitars/the-goodies/setu ... azzmaster/

Tuning problems are least often tuner-related. As with other guitars the nut is a common culprit. The vintage-style tuners are generally well-regarded. But if you prefer a different style by all means try it.

[alexpigment]

Locking tuners, contrary to what the name might imply, doesn't lock the strings in tune. It locks the string in the post rather than the string being held in by the windings. I know that there's a *theoretical* advantage to having less windings around the posts, but this is not where tuning issues generally occur. The vast majority of tuning issues are because of the nut (this is the "pinging G" you heard). I think that once you get the hang of stringing the guitar with the vintage style tuners, you probably won't go back to locking tuners.

The stock bridge is also fine if your strings aren't jumping the threads or if your bridge isn't lowering itself regularly (though it sounds like it is). As I'm typing this I noticed someone just posted with a lot of good info, so instead of typing more, read the above post But note that the Johnny Marr bridge recommendation is not applicable for the American Original Jaguar since the fretboard radius is 9.5" rather than 7.25". The American Professional bridge or Mastery is where you would want to look.

[timtam]

But note that the Johnny Marr bridge recommendation is not applicable for the American Original Jaguar since the fretboard radius is 9.5" rather than 7.25". The American Professional bridge or Mastery is where you would want to look.

Oops, I forgot about the 9.5" radius on the AO. Then another Mustang-style option is indeed the Am Pro bridge, which has recently been reported to have E-E spacing closer to the preferred 52mm (but check with any vendor to be sure).
https://darrenriley.com/store/fender-am ... 709942000/

[Kroc]

Your vintage-style bridge is the 0054460000 that dates back to the AVRI series in 1999 and has been continuously used since.
https://www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Orig ... 6-2017.pdf
https://darrenriley.com/store/fender-am ... 054460049/
Many people find them fine. Some like them to rock fully as they were designed to do, while others restrict rocking. Increased down force / break angle generally helps bridge operation, which sometimes requires a tapered neck shim (and resulting higher bridge), but your AO's neck pocket may already have been cut that way (?).

Others prefer Staytrem bridges, Mastery, or lately the new version of the Staytrem-like Johnny Marr bridge (7712971000), which is probably the best 7.25" radius Mustang-like bridge that Fender now makes.
EDIT: Wrong re the Marr bridge ... I forgot that the AO has 9.5" radius - see later post below.

If your strings are sometimes fouling the front edge of the bridge you may want to try lowering the bridge a tad and raising the saddles to clear it. Once you find your sweet spot it's often good to fix the screw heights in place with blue Loctite or clear nail polish.

Trem setup here ...
https://offset.guitars/the-goodies/setu ... azzmaster/

Tuning problems are least often tuner-related. As with other guitars the nut is a common culprit. The vintage-style tuners are generally well-regarded. But if you prefer a different style by all means try it.

Hey, thanks for the suggestions and links!! Appreciate the good info. Yes, the strings were touching the front edge of the bridge initially when it was angled back towards the stop bar (I think it was sinking). But that isn't an issue now that I've set it straight. How do the other bridges interact with the bridge holes? Like, do they still rock, or are they more fixed? And does that affect the tremolo action?

Locking tuners, contrary to what the name might imply, doesn't lock the strings in tune. It locks the string in the post rather than the string being held in by the windings. I know that there's a *theoretical* advantage to having less windings around the posts, but this is not where tuning issues generally occur. The vast majority of tuning issues are because of the nut (this is the "pinging G" you heard). I think that once you get the hang of stringing the guitar with the vintage style tuners, you probably won't go back to locking tuners.

The stock bridge is also fine if your strings aren't jumping the threads or if your bridge isn't lowering itself regularly (though it sounds like it is). As I'm typing this I noticed someone just posted with a lot of good info, so instead of typing more, read the above post But note that the Johnny Marr bridge recommendation is not applicable for the American Original Jaguar since the fretboard radius is 9.5" rather than 7.25". The American Professional bridge or Mastery is where you would want to look.

For sure. I have the locking tuners on a couple of other guitars, so I was primarily thinking about the theoretical advantage of less windings.
These are the ones I bought: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0751 ... UTF8&psc=1
I'm thinking I probably will just return them and keep using the stock ones, unless there are any other good reasons to put them on that I'm not aware of.
As you suggested, it's probably that the nut slots are probably still setup for 10-46, versus the 10-48 flat wounds. So everything aside from the high e is probably in a too-narrow slot. Is that something I could consider fixing myself, or am I right to think I should take it to someone who actually knows what they're doing?

I don't really play hard enough string thread-jumping to be an issue (plus I'm using flats), but I am getting bits of buzz here and there. I'm mainly concerned about having the tuning be as stable as possible so I can use this as a workhorse.
I was close to buying a mastery, but (aside from the odd looks) I read that people have trouble with it with wound 3rd strings (which would be a problem for me with flatwounds), and that it does away with some of the offset mojo and make it a little more strat-like. I'm also a little hesitant with it only having the four screws. Isn't that kind of like tele barrel saddles, where you have to 'approximate' the intonation? I think I'm too neurotic for that.
The StayTrem looks good, but I read about the lack of availability. The American Professional bridge looks like it would be perfect. Thanks for the suggestion! Does it change the sound much?

[alexpigment]

RE: The American Pro bridge - I don't think the sound change will be huge, but having your strings rest on a metal groove rather than on top of thin metal screw windings probably does technically change the sound. At any rate, I would consider the American Pro bridge to be generally an upgrade, but keep in mind that the string heights are fixed. It would be nice to be able to increase the height of a saddle or two, but it's not a huge issue really.

As for the nut, a professionally filed one can solve a number of issues both in terms of tuning stability and string height above the first few frets, but if the strings binding in the slots is the *only* problem, then you can go pretty far with a few basic tricks:

1) I like to take the string that's binding (say the G, for example) and take it out of the nut slot and move it temporarily over to the b string slot. Next, take the D string and put it in the G string's slot. While you're doing that put a little bit of downward pressure on the string between the nut and the tuners and then tune that D string up and down a small amount for about 20 times. You're effectively using a bigger string to widen and smooth out the nut slot. It would probably be better with round wounds rather than flats, but I think it would still work. Do this for any problematic nut slots.

2) Get some lubrication - I prefer Big Bend's Nut Sauce - and lube the nut slots. I used to also do this with vaseline on a toothpick to apply it. People say graphite from a pencil works well, but in my experience, that's only good for a pretty well cut nut in the first place. I think you'll be surprised how well this helps, even more than the step mentioned above. You'll need to do this each time you change strings at least for a little while.

[bjornsynneby]

The set up of a Jag is a complex procedure. I am going through this process right now with a new guitar. Here are some good links.

Optimizing the nut:
http://www.lutherie.net/nuts.html

Adjusting the stock bridge:
http://www.squier-talk.com/threads/adju ... dge.78986/

General setup:
https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/ ... rs-jaguars

Tuning stability depends a lot on the nut but also (1.) the shim increasing the break angle which is putting more downward force on the bridge and (2.) the setup of the tremolo assembly which is all mentioned in the article in Premierguitar.

I like the freefloating stock bridge. But if you want some more sustain and bell like tones the Staytrem is nice. I is hard to get hold of nowadays so the Johnny Marr bridge is an option. I am going to mod a Mustang bridge to E-E distance 53 mm by drilling new holes for the intonation screws on the neck side of the bridge. What I like with the stock bridge is that you can choose string spacing and individually adjust string height.

Good luck!