Jaguar New Vibrato and Bridge setup and hum issues

[kgbAttack]

Hello guys,

I have recently installed a mastery bridge and vibrato unit on my AVRI Jaguar. I am relatively inexperienced with guitar setup but despite my attempts to find a good tech where I live I haven't found anyone with experience on offset guitars. So I went with the DIY route. The first thing I had to do was to remove all the original cardboard shims because the stock bridge was very high. I replaced them with a 0.25 degree shim from StewMac. I remember one of the luthiers I brought the guitar to years ago angled my neck pocket (which at the time I thought was crazy), so I am wondering whether I could get away without any shim at all entirely. Now the mastery sits, from the pick guard, at approximately 3-3.5mm (0.12-0.14) on the low E string, and approximately at 2-2.5mm (0.08-0.10) on the high e string. Is this too high or is it about right?



So let's first say that the mastery sounds already much better than my former stock bridge, but still I have some fret buzz, particularly from the 12th fret onwards and particularly when I pick upward, which might be simply due to my playing style. So I measured the action, and on both E and e strings it's 0.60 or 1.5mm. I would prefer low action if I can, but I wouldn't mind raising it a bit.

Neck relief is between 0.11 and 0.12 at the 8th fret (measured with capo on first fret while pressing the string at 17th fret).

I lowered the pickups a bit, but I wonder if they're still too high?


Finally, and perhaps this is the worst problem, is that after i did all this work I now have far too much hum when I do not touch any metal part of the guitar. I am sure this was not the case before. When replacing the vibrato, I did notice the ground wire in the pocket but it looked almost glued to the body - I don't think it moved when installing the mastery vibrato. I wrote to John who suggested to use a meter to confirm what's grounded. So my question is: do you have a simple meter to recommend me? I am in Europe and I would rather not buy from StewMac again as customs tax is gonna be higher than the price of the meter itself. I've looked online on Amazon and on other sites and they all seem overly complicated

[oid]

Fret buzz above the 12th could either be to much relief in the neck and you need to tighten the truss rod or from the concentration of stress caused by the string on the neck which over time causes a hump in the neck. Fret the first fret with one hand and the 12th with the other, is there a gap in the 5th to 7th range? At most there should just be a slight gap, if there is a fair amount tighten the truss rod until it is almost gone and see if that solves your fret buzz. If there is little or no gap that suggests you have a hump, you can raise the action until the buzz is gone and if that extra height does not bother you, all is well, if it is too high than you will need a fret level to remedy it.

The height of your bridge off the body does not really matter, if you have issues with strings popping out of their saddle slots raise the bridge and increase the neck angle, if not call it good. It is a case of either not enough or enough, you can not really have to much without making the guitar awkward to play due to the severe neck angle it would require, a 1/4 of a degree is a long ways from that.

Pickup height is all down to the sound you want, try the lower, try them higher, find what you like.

As for your hum, if it goes away when your touch the strings, all is likely well and you just did not notice the amount of buzz before you worked on it. If it does not go away when you touch the strings than you need to fix your string ground, it is not longer in contact with the trem plate. If it sort of goes away then you could have a poor string ground and it is just not making good enough contact, often the insulation of the wire is pinched as well keep the wire itself from making good contact with the trem plate, only the bare wire should be pinched between the trem plate and the body.

[timtam]

As @oid says, if the bridge is not popping strings it's probably OK. I'd say it's borderline low, so another mm or two wouldn't be a bad thing. But it's all down to the neck (shim) angle and the action you want. 1.5mm action is not bad for a Jaguar. Have you accounted for the neck radius in setting the Mastery saddle heights ?
https://youtu.be/LvwAWQPKAcY?t=415

Relief: Do you mean 0.11 inches (or 0.011 inches ?) ? Or 0.11mm ? About 0.3mm is a good starting point.

The neck pickup is often considerably lower than the bridge pickup on a jag. Yours are tending that way. I would keep the bridge pickup as it is and set the neck pickup height to get similar sound level to the bridge.

[oid]

Relief: Do you mean 0.11 inches (or 0.011 inches ?) ? Or 0.11mm ? About 0.3mm is a good starting point.

How did I miss the relief measurement in OP? It has to be 0.11mm, strong indicator of a hump in the upper frets. That relief and action would suggest the hump is quite small still and well within the range that can be worked around with setup, a tad more relief as timtam suggest is a good starting place in that case.. Radius is a good question, is the fret buzz on all strings? if not that suggests you have the radius of the saddles set incorrectly and adjusting them may solve your buzz.

[kgbAttack]

Thanks guys, no the relief is 0.11 inches - sorry (I'm in Europe but the feeler gauge i bought indicates thickness in inches). I'll check the gap btw 5th and 7th fret in a moment and let you know.

[oid]

Thanks guys, no the relief is 0.11 inches - sorry (I'm in Europe but the feeler gauge i bought indicates thickness in inches). I'll check the gap btw 5th and 7th fret in a moment and let you know.

That is alot of relief, your truss rod must be slack or you have a very large hump. Start working to tighten it up, if the nut turns free and easy tighten until you feel resistance than give a half turn or so and string it back up, if you get resistance from the get go just give it a half turn. Watch how it changes at different frets and take notes. Learning how the truss rod changes the neck is a very useful thing and will make future adjustment much easier.

You can turn it until it starts to get hard to turn than string it back up and let it settle in under tension for awhile, it will be faster but you will not be able to observe how the truss rod affects the neck as well. Half turns are also almost always safe and will not get you in danger as long as you use properly sized and well fitting driver.

Edit: not hard as in difficult to turn, just an increase in resistance. That was a dangerous typo on my part!

[kgbAttack]

Thanks oid - So how much relief is good (in inches)? Is it 0.10? The last luthier I took the guitar to said that the truss rod had reached its limit. So what if I cannot tighten it anymore? I've read many different stories on how to solve the problem. I'm tempted to remove the neck, take it home with me on the plane next week and bring it to a luthier over there.

[oid]

Thanks oid - So how much relief is good (in inches)? Is it 0.10? The last luthier I took the guitar to said that the truss rod had reached its limit. So what if I cannot tighten it anymore? I've read many different stories on how to solve the problem. I'm tempted to remove the neck, take it home with me on the plane next week and bring it to a luthier over there.

If the truss rod is bottomed out and you have that much relief you almost certainly have a good size hump at the end of the fretboard which will need to be addressed to to get the guitar to play well and the truss rod nut will need a few washers added in so it can once again function, it is also possible you have a failed truss rod, but that is unlikely. This is likely a case for a competent luthier, it does not need to be one that is familiar with offsets, any decent luthier will be able to manage and will do research on the bridge and tremolo so they can properly set it up. Taking just the neck is not the best since it can not be properly put under tension and some problems can be difficult to spot without the neck being under tension.

This repair is within the ability of anyone with a bit of determination, but I would get a cheap beater guitar with bad frets to start with if you decide to go down this route. Just be aware, if the hump is bad it will need frets pulled so the fingerboard can be planed, it is not common for this to be the case in fender style neck though.

[timtam]

So how much relief is good (in inches)? Is it 0.10?

No, not 0.10. Shift the decimal point one place to the left. So around 0.012 inches. Or 0.3mm.

[kgbAttack]

Ok guys - I have misread the feeler gauge - it is .011-.012 (between 0.28 and 0.30mm) - I apologize

I was just checking how much gap there is between the 5th to 7th fret when pressing at the 1st and 12th: there is gap of approximately .009.

[timtam]

Your relief is fine then. So your neck / truss rod are probably fine too.

Check the 12th fret action on the other strings to see if you've allowed for the neck radius in your saddle heights.

But you may have to raise the saddles a bit to raise the action to the point where it will play without buzzing, and then see if you can wind them back down to a good action for you.

You could also check with a fret rocker/straight edge to see if you have any high frets beyond the 12th.

[kgbAttack]

Ok thank you!!! So I raised a little bit the bridge, but really just a tiny amount. Then I checked again the radius at the saddles height and it was off, as you both thought, towards the e and E strings - I was surprised as I did check it the first time and it seemed ok - well now it sounds much better; of course the action is quite higher at the low E string now, so I'll play for a few days and see how it goes, and if I don't like it I'll try to lower the bridge again.

So for the hum you think it was just me not noticing it first? That is possible of course but I have a Jazzmaster and a Tele and they don't have quite the same hum when I don't touch them.

[oid]

Nice! good to hear it was just a mix up with units. Should have been able to figure that out, nearly 3mm of relief with a 1.5mm action would be unplayable, it was well past my bedtime.

So for the hum you think it was just me not noticing it first? That is possible of course but I have a Jazzmaster and a Tele and they don't have quite the same hum when I don't touch them.

The amount of hum you hear when not touching them tells little, until you touch the strings the guitar is pretty much an antenna picking up noise. How is the hum when you are touching it?

[timtam]

But you may have to raise the saddles a bit to raise the action to the point where it will play without buzzing, and then see if you can wind them back down to a good action for you.

Re-reading what I wrote and realized I should refine it ... use the saddles to match the neck radius but use bridge height to set the overall action. Obviously there's no 100% distinction between them - the saddle height will always contribute to the action - but it's best not to adjust the overall action primarily with the saddles. But if only a single string is buzzing with low action, and it's not due to other things, then adjust its saddle (a little harder on a Mastery due to shared saddles).

[windmill]

Our friend Dave has an answer for your humming problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp-zFLylafE

After watching the start skip the work on the neck and go to around 4 min 40secs on the video.

HTH