Swope Descendant Vibrato

For help with setups and other technical issues.
User avatar
marqueemoon
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 3299
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by marqueemoon » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:42 am

Cool. If he filed for a patent for it is it mechanically different in some way?

User avatar
scottydanger
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 270
Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:06 am
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by scottydanger » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:44 am

Played it for a few minutes today: it was super tight, in a good way. Felt like I had insanely precise control, I’m way into it and would be down to buy one in the future. The staytrem pairing was great, I didn’t feel like the guitar needed a mastery at all.

User avatar
Horsefeather
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:47 pm

Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by Horsefeather » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:47 pm

I noticed the other day that Fender has placed the vibrato on some JMs a little closer to the bridge than the original design and I assume it was for the same purpose of increasing the break angle over the strings. Anyone doing a body from scratch might go that route (in both senses of the word) too. In fact it could pair well with this spaced vibrato idea. I wonder if you could simply add a couple washers to a stock JM vibrato and achieve the same thing.

User avatar
601210
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 912
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:55 am

Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by 601210 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:30 pm

Horsefeather wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:47 pm
I noticed the other day that Fender has placed the vibrato on some JMs a little closer to the bridge than the original design and I assume it was for the same purpose of increasing the break angle over the strings. Anyone doing a body from scratch might go that route (in both senses of the word) too. In fact it could pair well with this spaced vibrato idea. I wonder if you could simply add a couple washers to a stock JM vibrato and achieve the same thing.
The closer vibrato spacing is kind of a taste thing, some people like the different feel and some don't, and apparently it changes some of the harmonics.

I think with the standard vibrato, it's a little too tight to just lower the blade -- you either wind up with your strings biting into the screws or getting pinched.

User avatar
antisymmetric
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 3205
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:32 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by antisymmetric » Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:37 pm

I'd say it should work- I've gone down about 2.5mm with this one (probably not as much as the Swope), any further would have been pushing my luck with string clearance at the top and also with ball end clearance when changing strings:
Image

Silly domed screws swapped for countersunk:
Image

Back of the slot in the top plate had to be widened for ball end clearance:
Image
I see no reason for it not to work, but I've yet to build my JM-like object in which to try it out ::) (although I've put it through its range of motion with a string attached and held under tension more or less at the right angle, I and could see no problems... fingers crossed!)
Watching the corners turn corners

User avatar
marqueemoon
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 3299
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by marqueemoon » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:37 am

I just saw on Waterslide's Instagram they have a prototype now. Maybe more news from NAMM on this?

User avatar
Shadoweclipse13
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 8459
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:22 pm
Location: Stuck in the dimension of imagination

Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:04 pm

Kent wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:50 am
I managed to talk to the creator about the unit and have a play with it.

It is literally the only one in existence. He finished it late Thursday and then flew out for the show. Patent application was filed the same week.

I guess what everyone wants to know is whether it is a drop-in replacement for a Fender unit. The answer is “Yes, it was designed that way.”

The bridge is a Staytrem. He’s happy with those but might have a look into bridges as well but thinks that the Mastery and Staytrem are currently sufficient.

It feels great and he aimed for a ‘50s JM feel.

I got the impression that he is on the fence as to whether it will be released as a standalone product.

I took some pictures but I don’t have a service so.... well, the current one on Instagram will suffice.
If he makes them and offers a lefty, I'll definitely check it out. It's cool to see that he's using Staytrem, but seeing as how John said he's not making them for the rest of the world anymore, it'd be nice if this guy took a shot at bridges too (or even talked to John about making John's design).
Pickup Switching Mad Scientist
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

User avatar
timtam
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1340
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:42 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by timtam » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:12 pm

Interesting .. on waterslide guitar ...
Image

swopeguitars
"it allows the player to lower the guts of the unit deeper into the cavity so one can get the desired degree of downward string pressure at the bridge. You should not have to load your neck pocket with shims and raise your bridge up high. (That creates other problems). The main goal, of course, is to keep your strings from popping out of the saddles. But you can also get more sustain with more downward pressure. If you love all the idiosyncrasies that come with a traditional JM vibrato.. the sympathetic whistles and zings, I get it, just lower it to the degree where your string stays in the slot and stop. But I believe, too, there are a lot of players who want to love Jazzmasters and the like, but feel they need more sustain out of the guitar. Those players can lower it more and achieve this. True, you can get there with a buzz stop but that adds an extra friction point, is often too steep of an angle, and gets in the way of those folks who love to play behind the bridge. "

Estimating release in 90 days.

Image
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs3Gj54HXJj/
Timtam (noun): Iconic Australian multi-layered chocolate biscuit.

User avatar
marqueemoon
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 3299
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by marqueemoon » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:47 pm

Price point?

I’m probably still going to be collecting parts for my lipstick JM project in 90 days. :unsure:

User avatar
timtam
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1340
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:42 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by timtam » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:52 pm

marqueemoon wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:47 pm
Price point?
swopeguitars
"I don’t have a price nailed down, yet. I’m still waiting on a couple of quotes but I do imagine it will be similar to the other high end aftermarket alternative. As for bridges, I can’t determine that for anyone but me. With my setup preferences and playing style a threaded rod JM bridge works well. I have only tried offshore mustang bridges and those have too much side to side slop to me. There are gaps between the saddles that allow the saddles to move side to side with any sort of aggressive playing. I do like both Staytrem and Mastery bridges but I feel the real problem is the original design vibrato."
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bs3Gj54HXJj/
Timtam (noun): Iconic Australian multi-layered chocolate biscuit.

User avatar
El Reclusa
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:05 pm

Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by El Reclusa » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:09 pm

I just ordered parts for my upcoming Jazzmaster build and didn't order a tailpiece yet, since I'm hoping Chris will have the Descendant out before MJT is done finishing my parts. I haven't spoken to him in a minute but last I heard he's getting close.

Also, his Biscayne model looks ace. I may hafta do that instead of the next build I had in mind after this one. I've wanted one of Chris' guitars for a minute but until now they've been just a bit more than I can justify spending on an instrument. This model is a little closer to budget and looks super fun.

User avatar
601210
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 912
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:55 am

Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by 601210 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:14 am

So the height between moving inner plate and the outer plate (what are the words for these??) is adjustable. That's pretty cool. More adjustability is usually better as long as stability isn't sacrificed.

I'd be more interested in this for my partscaster but the bridge is already way jacked up cause of the builder putting in a neck pocket angle by default, so that benefit is probably lost on me. If I increase the break angle any more, the strings start catching on the rear of the bridge.

User avatar
Shadoweclipse13
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 8459
Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:22 pm
Location: Stuck in the dimension of imagination

Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:23 am

Has Swope said anything about making any lefty models of the Descendant?
Pickup Switching Mad Scientist
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=104282&p=1438384#p1438384

User avatar
tdbajus
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 873
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:09 am
Location: Back in Brooklyn
Contact:

Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by tdbajus » Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:35 am

I can't find anything new on the ol' interwebs, still, but guitars from Waterslide keep popping up with them.

They make me feel a little swimmy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4MC8E-4Z6k

User avatar
bodhi
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 12:47 pm

Re: Swope Descendant Vibrato

Post by bodhi » Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:26 pm

Would these, or a shim like the one in a previous post, affect the range of the system meaningfully? Don't feel that I'd need more bridge pressure necessarily, but some range increase would be neat...
Jazzmaster project (got a body, placeholder neck, some pickups and ideas)
Tokai Telecaster Thinline with Creamery Pickups Filtertron and Tapped Tele
Blake Mills-inspired Strat project w/ Gold Foil and slide pickup

Post Reply