MJT Parts project feels "soft" and "dull" - bridge replacement?

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nosignal
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MJT Parts project feels "soft" and "dull" - bridge replacement?

Post by nosignal » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:59 pm

Hi everyone, I was wondering if I could get some help. I read through the bridge FAQ but I saw mostly questions/solutions for string slipping rather than addressing a "feel" issue. So I've got a parts Jazzmaster that I pieced together from an MJT "full kit" option (came with the bridge and hardware). I have mastery vibrato and a 12" radius neck (with a bone nut). Also, the guitar is a lefty.

My issue has been that the guitar has felt what I can best describe as "soft" or "dull" to me. When I play, I feel like the guitar is just kind of "muted." I put a shim in the neck to increase the bridges break angle and I also increased my string gauge to 11's. I'm still finding the guitar to feel "soft" to me.

I'm thinking that my problem has to be with the bridge right? Maybe it's a cheap bridge that is giving me this feel? I've been thinking about replacing the bridge (or maybe just the saddles?) but I wanted to see if this is likely my problem before I try it. I've been totally fine with the jazzmaster style bridge and I haven't had any tuning or string slipping issues at all.

I appreciate any feedback/suggestions. Thanks!!

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Re: MJT Parts project feels "soft" and "dull" - bridge replacement?

Post by Embenny » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:07 pm

Is this your first Jazzmaster? Just trying to gauge your frame of reference. I have owned a good couple dozen offsets and there's a spectrum of how they've sounded acoustically and felt, but they're not snappy like a Tele or springy and lively like a good strat. Definitely have their own feel.

Having said that, changing the bridge has a huge impact on the feel of a JM. Why did you go for a Mastery vibrato but stock bridge? The Mastery is definitely the "liveliest" bridge I own (I have two, along with 4 Staytrems and a whole bunch of Mustang and stock bridges of various sorts), if you are inclined that way.
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Re: MJT Parts project feels "soft" and "dull" - bridge replacement?

Post by nosignal » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:58 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:07 pm
Is this your first Jazzmaster? Just trying to gauge your frame of reference. I have owned a good couple dozen offsets and there's a spectrum of how they've sounded acoustically and felt, but they're not snappy like a Tele or springy and lively like a good strat. Definitely have their own feel.

Having said that, changing the bridge has a huge impact on the feel of a JM. Why did you go for a Mastery vibrato but stock bridge? The Mastery is definitely the "liveliest" bridge I own (I have two, along with 4 Staytrems and a whole bunch of Mustang and stock bridges of various sorts), if you are inclined that way.
Thank you for the question, this is indeed my first Jazzmaster! I forgot to mention that in my initial post. So I thought it may just be the nature of how they feel but I wanted to check with others who have more experience.

I chose the mastery vibrato because I'm a lefty and MJT didn't have access to a lefty vibrato. I didn't go with the mastery bridge just because of money at the time.

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Re: MJT Parts project feels "soft" and "dull" - bridge replacement?

Post by Embenny » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:57 pm

Ah, that makes great sense then. I'm spoiled as a righty guitarist.

Have you played many Jazzmasters? The feel is different for sure, but I also find that every partsmaster I have built sounded very different acoustically and had a different response to it. Something about the particular pairing of each neck with each body.

When it comes to bridges, lately my preference has been Staytrem, but it's closer to a traditional vintage feel and tone. The Mastery, which I have had on two Jazzmasters and one Jaguar so far, definitely made the guitar feel more "alive" in terms of acoustic response and sustain.

I had one jaguar that had a Buzz Stop on it for years along with a Mustang bridge that I wrapped taped around the posts to "block" the floating action, and that felt a lot like a hardtail bridge. I eventually converted it back to stock because my appreciation for the stock configuration of a Jag increased over time, but you could try that route - it's cheap if not mildly sacrilegious!
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Re: MJT Parts project feels "soft" and "dull" - bridge replacement?

Post by nosignal » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:57 am

mbene085 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:57 pm
Ah, that makes great sense then. I'm spoiled as a righty guitarist.

Have you played many Jazzmasters? The feel is different for sure, but I also find that every partsmaster I have built sounded very different acoustically and had a different response to it. Something about the particular pairing of each neck with each body.

When it comes to bridges, lately my preference has been Staytrem, but it's closer to a traditional vintage feel and tone. The Mastery, which I have had on two Jazzmasters and one Jaguar so far, definitely made the guitar feel more "alive" in terms of acoustic response and sustain.

I had one jaguar that had a Buzz Stop on it for years along with a Mustang bridge that I wrapped taped around the posts to "block" the floating action, and that felt a lot like a hardtail bridge. I eventually converted it back to stock because my appreciation for the stock configuration of a Jag increased over time, but you could try that route - it's cheap if not mildly sacrilegious!
I went to the local GC to try and play a JM just to compare. They only had a J Mascis JM which of course has a TOM bridge and it looked like the string length behind the bridge was shorter than a normal JM. That guitar definitely didn't have any of the "muted" or "dull" feel that my parts master has. Seems like my issue could very well just be inherent to the JM. I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for others in stores so I can keep comparing.

I really like the operation of the vintage-style bridge and how it interacts with the trem system of the guitar so I'm definitely not turned off by the vintage correct parts or even the JM as a whole. I'm not a huge fan of the idea of the buzz stop accessory so I doubt I'll end up going with one of those.

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Re: MJT Parts project feels "soft" and "dull" - bridge replacement?

Post by JVG » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:18 am

It definitely takes time to adjust to the feel of jazzmasters and Jaguars, especially if you've been accustomed to strats and teles. I remember feeling a bit sirprised when I played my first one. For some reason I was expecting that twangy "Fender" sound.

Having said that, it's possible yours could be abnormally muffled. If that is that case, the bridge is the hardware component that I think makes the biggest difference. However, at the end of the day sometimes you just get pieces of wood that don't work well together, and there's nothing you can do about that except try a different neck or body. Necks are more often the culprits in my experience. Hopefully it won't be the case for you, but it's worth being aware of.

All the best,
J.

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Re: MJT Parts project feels "soft" and "dull" - bridge replacement?

Post by ludobag1 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:38 am

what pups you have in it ? the high of them ?
shimmed neck or not ,action ?,you neck have the luther tricks ? (you unscrew and rescrew neck screw with the guitar in tune)
a jazzmaster in bridge pick ups is pretty aggressive in the sound close to telecaster
what amp you use with it ,need a amp that is open in sound ,need bass ,middle and treble ,a jazzmaster is really treble (some tame this)
but dull and soft is not the jazzmaster sound

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Re: MJT Parts project feels "soft" and "dull" - bridge replacement?

Post by nosignal » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:10 am

JVG wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:18 am
It definitely takes time to adjust to the feel of jazzmasters and Jaguars, especially if you've been accustomed to strats and teles. I remember feeling a bit sirprised when I played my first one. For some reason I was expecting that twangy "Fender" sound.

Having said that, it's possible yours could be abnormally muffled. If that is that case, the bridge is the hardware component that I think makes the biggest difference. However, at the end of the day sometimes you just get pieces of wood that don't work well together, and there's nothing you can do about that except try a different neck or body. Necks are more often the culprits in my experience. Hopefully it won't be the case for you, but it's worth being aware of.

All the best,
J.
Thanks for the reply! I'm most familiar with gibson scales and Tune-o-matic bridges+stop tailpieces but I've had teles too and I have a strat so I'm not unfamiliar with the longer scale feel but the Jazzmaster is definitely outside of my normal wheelhouse.

Yeah, the bridge is really the only thing that I can think would be the issue. I've been toying with the idea of replacing it with a higher quality JM bridge, mustang bridge (with individual height adjustments) or maybe even just replace the saddles themselves. I'm not too familiar with the parts that MJT provides. I think they come from allparts, but I'm unsure if the allparts quality is the highest. Thanks!!

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Re: MJT Parts project feels "soft" and "dull" - bridge replacement?

Post by nosignal » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:23 am

ludobag1 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:38 am
what pups you have in it ? the high of them ?
shimmed neck or not ,action ?,you neck have the luther tricks ? (you unscrew and rescrew neck screw with the guitar in tune)
a jazzmaster in bridge pick ups is pretty aggressive in the sound close to telecaster
what amp you use with it ,need a amp that is open in sound ,need bass ,middle and treble ,a jazzmaster is really treble (some tame this)
but dull and soft is not the jazzmaster sound
So right now, I've got a SD 1/4lb in the bridge (sitting ~0.15" away from the strings) and a Brandonwound in the neck (I believe this one is wound to vintage specs) which is sitting 0.14" away from the strings. My action is (bit higher than I usually prefer) ~0.07" on both the low and high side. I have shimmed the neck with 2 business cards which let me get a stronger break angle and raise the bridge.

I'm not really dissatisfied with the amplified sound of the guitar, it's definitely bright. I actually replaced my original Brandonwound bridge pickup with the SD 1/4lb so I could get a bit more balanced low end out of the bridge. It's really just the feel of how the guitar plays (especially with the 3 unwound strings). It just feels a bit "muted" to me. But I have very limited experience with JM's so I'm not sure if it's just a characteristic of the design or if it should indeed feel a bit different. I'm starting to lean toward the thought that it may just be a design characteristic.

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Re: MJT Parts project feels "soft" and "dull" - bridge replacement?

Post by ludobag1 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:04 pm

the muted you feel is the jazz sound ,when you hit a string it done 1 st a plink and 2nde the sound less loud of the string ringing
it is du to bridge and trem
a strat (or tvi)s more equilibrate between attack and sustain

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Re: MJT Parts project feels "soft" and "dull" - bridge replacement?

Post by JVG » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:39 pm

I'm tending to agree with the post above, that you're hearing the jazzmaster sound. It's an acquired taste. As I mentioned above, I was initially a bit baffled by my first one. I didn't play it much, and then it sat in a case for a few months. When I eventually got it out again, I loved t, and have loved it ever since. It's almost like my mind needed time to recalibrate, after years of strats and teles.

That said, I suggest you keep looking in guitar shops to try other ones (the more traditional ones, with the floating bridge and tailpiece) so you have a wider base for comparison.

Also, if you can lower the action/bridge a bit, you will reduce the "plunkiness" by a small amount (but might also make the amplified sound a bit thinner).

All the best!
J.

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Re: MJT Parts project feels "soft" and "dull" - bridge replacement?

Post by thesjkexperience » Fri Jun 22, 2018 10:46 am

I didn’t read the entire thread so this may have been mentioned.

Using thicker and longer neck screws will Help the softness issue as will using a thick/heavy neck plate (Philadelphia Luthiery sells them for less).

Shimming the neck to 1 or 1.5 degrees will firm up the feel and add sustain. Stew Mac has wooden angled shims. Expensive, but effective.

Saddles make a difference! I prefer the Mustang and modified Mustang bridges I find sound more vintage than a Mastery and is much less expensive. Warmouth sells these.

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Re: MJT Parts project feels "soft" and "dull" - bridge replacement?

Post by El Reclusa » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:57 pm

I'm no expert, but I can say this at least- the Jag I just built with a vintage Musicmaster neck and MJT body is definitely not dull. At all. I'd be hard pressed to not go the roll-your-own route in the future. I used the brass-saddled Mustang bridge and slightly improved vibrato from a Troy Van Leeuwen JM and I'm really happy with them. I'm not sure about it, but they seem similar to the Johnny Marr model parts that I believe are Stay Trem?

Only semi-relatedly, the Musicmaster I've owned and loved since I was a kid really came to life when I replaced the saddles with a good set of compensated brass ones. My Tele and Esquire have similar stories. A good bridge makes a big difference. Even adding brass sleeves to limit the wobble of the stock Squier bridge on my VI made a noticeable difference. In your place I'd be looking at the bridge as a weak link. Good luck!

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Re: MJT Parts project feels "soft" and "dull" - bridge replacement?

Post by El Reclusa » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:00 pm

Also, the Stew Mac shims are great, but the 1 degree one I tried on a bass seemed really thick, to the point of overkill. I have .5 shims in the Jag and a Tele and they're well worth the $8 or so.

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