Duncan Designed Jazzmaster pickups, Analysis & Review

For help with setups and other technical issues.
Post Reply
User avatar
Antigua
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:05 pm

Duncan Designed Jazzmaster pickups, Analysis & Review

Post by Antigua » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:12 pm

Image

I've had my eye on Fender offset guitars for a while, but there are none in stock at any nearby guitar stores, and I was hesitant to buy one, knowing that they've been much less popular than Strats or Teles on a consistent basis for decades. I bought a Squier baritone Antigua Jazzmaster last year, and realy liked the weight and feel of that guitar. Then I saw that there is a well reviewed, mostly vintage, regular Squier Jazzmaster as well, so I ordered one, and here I have analysed the Duncan Design pickups that came with it.

I do a lot of pickup reviews that are based around technical analysis, but this is my first offset pickup review, so this is my first visit to this forum, and hopefully not the last. The quality of these Squiers are very good, certainly better than MIM's of the last decade, and maybe even this decade.

A lot of people see Jazzmaster pickups and think P-90, but the truth is these pickups have far fewer turns of wire than a P-90, and generate only half the inductance of a typical P-90, and so they sound brighter, more comparable to a Strat and Tele pickup. Fender's frequent combination of a low inductances and AlNiCo rod pole pieces results in a characteristic that is often described as "Fendery". As can be seen from the pics below, the Jazzmaster pickup is actually even wider and flatter than a P-90. It's said that Leo Fender tried this form factor in the hopes of getting a "wider spectrum" and "warmer tone", though there's no physics based justification for that analysis.

Although these pickups use AlNiCo 5 pole pieces, the flux density at the pole tops is about 30% weaker than that of AlNiCo 5 Strat pickups, because the pole pieces are only 12mm in height, where as a Stratocaster pickup's pole pieces range from 16mm to 18mm in height. The strength of AlNiCo is highly dependant on the shape of the magnet, which is much less true of neodymium or ceramic magnets.

The bridge pickup is wound very hot, nearly 6 henries inductance and a DC resistance of nearly 12k . My understanding is that the original Jazzmasters had two identical pickups that were wound to 6k to 7k range, so this "hot" bridge is definitely a "custom" appointment, probably meant to make the guitar more "rock 'n' roll" ready. So, while Jazzmaster pickups are not really intended to sound P-90'ish, this much overwound bridge pickup gets fairly close to a P-90. The Squier Jaguar, which also come loaded with Duncan Design pickups, also features a similarly hot bridge.

The neck pickup's DC resistance of 6.65k and inductance of 3.0H is near identical to what Fender lists for their Pure Vintage Jazzmaster set, so had they used two Duncan Designed neck pickups, this Squier would sound very close to the $2,000
AMERICAN VINTAGE '65 JAZZMASTER, which comes equipped with said Pure Vintage pickups. The loaded resonant peak of 3.85kHz is near identical to that of a Seymour Duncan SSL-1, for comparison sake.


Duncan Designed Jazzmaster Bridge (JM101B-ADWH BRIDGE 1610)
- DC Resistance: 11.75K ohms
- Measured L: 5.872H
- Calculated C: 44pF (54 - 10)
- Gauss: 750G

Duncan Designed Jazzmaster Neck (JM101N-ADWH NECK 1610)
- DC Resistance: 6.65K ohms
- Measured L: 3.044H
- Calculated C: 46pF (56 - 10)
- Gauss: 750G

Bridge unloaded: dV 20.4dB f: 8.95kHz (black)
Bridge loaded (200k & 470pF): dV 4.4dB f: 2.64kHz (blue)
Neck unloaded: dV 20.9dB f: 12.2kHz (red)
Neck loaded (200k & 470pF): dV 7.0dB f: 3.85kHz (green)

Pole piece height: 12.13mm


Image


A couple interesting things can be seen from these specs.

First, for the intrinsic capacitance of these coils is very low, only 44pF and 46pF capacitance. It seems that the wide, flat coil cross section results in much less intrinsic capacitance than the more "square" cross section of a typical pickup coil. On the flip side, the inductance is higher. For 6.7k ohms of wire on the neck pickup, the inductance comes in around 3.0 henries, where as a Stratocaster coil wound to this DC resistance typically has an inductance closer to 2.6 henres. Therefore, what is lost in capacitance is gained in inductance, and as the resonant peak is a product of both the inductance and the capacitance, the resonant peak of the neck pickup comes out to 3.85kHz, which is spot on for a Strat pickup of similar DC resistance, but with a lower inductance of 2.6H and a higher capacitance of 120pF.

Another interesting aspect is that the Q factor is very high. The unloaded peak produces a ridiculous +20dBV, higher than I've seen from any other pickup. The next closest was the Jazz Bass split pickup, with +15dBV at resonance. This high Q is true of both the normal neck and the "hot" bridge, though under 200k ohms load, the resonance of the hot bridge drops to a typical +4.4dBV, probably due in part to the high DC resistance, though the loaded neck shows +7dBV, which is very high for a Fender pickup, or any other kind of pickup. I'm not exactly sure what accounts for the higher Q factor, but one factor is that the AlNiCo pole pieces are smaller than usual, and I would also guess is that the wider coil means that a greater portion of the magnetic flux path travels through air, as opposed to core material, reducing eddy current losses.

Making the Q factor even more extreme, the Jazzmaster comes equipped with 1 meg tone and volume pots, so the in-situ Q factor will be a lot higher than what is seen from a 200k test load. A 1 meg tone and 1 meg volume would combine to become a higher 500k load. A higher Q factor makes for a more nasal treble, or a more squawky mid range, depending on the peak frequency. The Q factor can be reduced with the tone knob, so this just means you might have to set the tone knob to 8 or 9 to get a treble response that is similar to a Strat or a Tele in the same rig.

Also note that, according to the plot, the "hot" bridge does increase the output by 3.0dB. Not too bad, but it comes at the expense of treble response much beyond 2.6kHz, depending on the guitar cable.



About the guitar...

At first I wasn't digging the loose and rattly bridge, but I installed a "Buzz Stop" on the trem unit to tighten the strings down, and now I'd enjoying it a lot. The controls looked complicated, but if you ignore the switch and two knobs on the upper bow, the controls basically amount to 1 tone, 1 vol, and a 3 way pickup selector, very simple.

Compared to a Strat's pickup placement, the bridge pickup's pole pieces correspond to the pole piece that is nearer to the bridge, straight across, so that lack of angle means there will be less bass response from the Jazzmaster bridge pickup. The Jazzmaster neck pickup's pole pieces are about 10mm closer to the bridge, compared to the neck pickup of a Strat or a Tele, so the Jazzmaster neck pickup's voicing is a bit less "chimey" and a little more "quack". The Jazzmaster neck pickup's pole pieces are not directly below the 4th harmonic node, and is instead shifted closer to the 5th harmonic node, and so it imparts some of the harmonic response associated with a middle pickup. PAF type neck humbuckers in a Gibson generally have a similar quality, since the inner coil's row of pole pieces is 18mm closer to bridge.

I'd say the neck pickup placement is probably the #1 thing that restricts the Jazzmaster's ability to cover all of the popular music recorded with Stratocasters and Telecasters. Without the "Buzz Stop" accessory, the bridge feels like it can't take nearly the abuse that a Strat or Tele can withstand. It feels almost like playing a solid body guitar that came equiped with a floating archtop and bigsby. With the Buzz Stop, it feels more solid and reliable. The body contours are all around similar to that of a Strat, but the larger body size restricts your movement somewhat.


Image

Image

Jazzmaster pickup side by side with a P-90:

Image

User avatar
Debaser
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2014 2:12 pm
Location: Phoenix AZ

Re: Duncan Designed Jazzmaster pickups, Analysis & Review

Post by Debaser » Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:28 pm

Another interesting aspect is that the Q factor is very high. The unloaded peak produces a ridiculous +20dBV, higher than I've seen from any other pickup. The next closest was the Jazz Bass split pickup, with +15dBV at resonance. This high Q is true of both the normal neck and the "hot" bridge, though under 200k ohms load, the resonance of the hot bridge drops to a typical +4.4dBV, probably due in part to the high DC resistance, though the loaded neck shows +7dBV, which is very high for a Fender pickup, or any other kind of pickup. I'm not exactly sure what accounts for the higher Q factor, but one factor is that the AlNiCo pole pieces are smaller than usual, and I would also guess is that the wider coil means that a greater portion of the magnetic flux path travels through air, as opposed to core material, reducing eddy current losses.
This is interesting, have you looked any further into other possible causes? How do you think these observations translate to players' perceptions of the "JM sound," as opposed to other typical Fender guitar pickups?
50,000 watts out of Mexico, this is the BorderRadio...

User avatar
bacca51
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: Duncan Designed Jazzmaster pickups, Analysis & Review

Post by bacca51 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:15 pm

This is a great review. As for your bridge problem, you should try removing the buzz stop, shimming the neck and using higher gauge strings (I love flat wound 11s for JMs) The increased break angle with the shim allows you to set the bridge higher up off the guitar, creating a better break angle. This set up will remove all the looseness from the bridge and is really the way a JM was intended to be set up.

User avatar
Antigua
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:05 pm

Re: Duncan Designed Jazzmaster pickups, Analysis & Review

Post by Antigua » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:40 am

Debaser wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 1:28 pm
Another interesting aspect is that the Q factor is very high. The unloaded peak produces a ridiculous +20dBV, higher than I've seen from any other pickup. The next closest was the Jazz Bass split pickup, with +15dBV at resonance. This high Q is true of both the normal neck and the "hot" bridge, though under 200k ohms load, the resonance of the hot bridge drops to a typical +4.4dBV, probably due in part to the high DC resistance, though the loaded neck shows +7dBV, which is very high for a Fender pickup, or any other kind of pickup. I'm not exactly sure what accounts for the higher Q factor, but one factor is that the AlNiCo pole pieces are smaller than usual, and I would also guess is that the wider coil means that a greater portion of the magnetic flux path travels through air, as opposed to core material, reducing eddy current losses.
This is interesting, have you looked any further into other possible causes? How do you think these observations translate to players' perceptions of the "JM sound," as opposed to other typical Fender guitar pickups?
I'm not any closer to an explanation, as I'd have to probably create test case pickups in order to see which particular difference accounts for the high Q. The smaller pole pieces certainly are part of it, that's a known, but I'm not sure if the very wide coil is also responsible, I'm not as sure about that. If you think of every turn of wire as it's own coil though, then it stands to reason that for the turns of wire further out will not magnetically couple with those pole pieces as strongly, thus less eddy current losses in relation to that particular turn of wire. Typical pickup coils have more of their turns in a closer proximity to the core.

The tonal effect of a high Q factor depends on the frequency that it's resonating at. A high Q factor means "a lot of something in particular" where as a low Q factor means less over a wider area. Fender single coils have a high Q factor in general, because of the AlNiCo pole piece cores, where as most other pickups on the market have steel screws or pole pieces, which is much more conductive and lossy than AlNiCo. If the peak frequency is up around 4kHz, then a high Q makes for a glassy attack, the typical Strat sound. If it's closer to the 3kHz, it sounds more nasal, or shrill. In the 2kHz range it makes for more of a "honk" (think P-90).

The pickup is not the only thing that sets the Q factor though, the other thing is the tone and volume pots. The parallel resistance "leaks" voltage around the resonance of the pickup, which brings the Q factor down. That's the main purpose of using 250k, 500k or 1meg pots. The 1 meg pots in Jags and JMs causes a high Q factor when the tone control is at 10. You can bright the Q factor down just by rolling off on the tone knob. The capacitor value of the tone control doesn't have as much of an effect until you hit closer to 0 on the tone control. IMO, Jags and JM sound better if you turn the tone control down a little, and the amp's treble up to compensate as needed.

User avatar
Antigua
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:05 pm

Re: Duncan Designed Jazzmaster pickups, Analysis & Review

Post by Antigua » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:42 am

bacca51 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:15 pm
This is a great review. As for your bridge problem, you should try removing the buzz stop, shimming the neck and using higher gauge strings (I love flat wound 11s for JMs) The increased break angle with the shim allows you to set the bridge higher up off the guitar, creating a better break angle. This set up will remove all the looseness from the bridge and is really the way a JM was intended to be set up.
I took the buzz stop off, and put 10-52's on. It seems OK now. It was ridiculous with the stock 9's, though. I do prefer it not sounding like yet another hard (or at least harder) tail solid body, I have enough of those. It also makes me appreciate a floating bridge on a Strat more. I used to deck the bridge for more sustain, but sometimes less is more.

User avatar
bacca51
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: Duncan Designed Jazzmaster pickups, Analysis & Review

Post by bacca51 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:39 am

Antigua wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:42 am
I took the buzz stop off, and put 10-52's on. It seems OK now. It was ridiculous with the stock 9's, though. I do prefer it not sounding like yet another hard (or at least harder) tail solid body, I have enough of those. It also makes me appreciate a floating bridge on a Strat more. I used to deck the bridge for more sustain, but sometimes less is more.
I've always liked the plunky-ness of Jazzmasters and Jaguars. They sounds really woody with flatwounds too. I can't recommend 11s and a shim enough.

Post Reply