NGD Gibson Les Paul Special with wraparound bridge + questions

[pocaloc]

I just received a used Les Paul Special with wraparound bridge yesterday. I've never had a guitar with a wraparound bridge and have a few questions. 1st off, it sounds way out of tune when playing chords, even though the individual strings are in tune. It did travel from Florida to Washington State. It's freezing at the time up here. Also, the e strings are slipping off of the fret board pretty easily. I know that there is not much tension on the strings with this sort of bridge. I'm going to try putting 11's on it today to see if that helps with the strings slipping off, and maybe the current strings are just old. I guess it will need a setup. I'm just posting to see if someone can share their wisdom with experiences with wraparound bridges. I played it out of tune for a while just to see how it sounds and it seems like something I wouldn't mind putting some money into. I know there are aftermarket bridge options that can help. I'd like to keep the look of the current bridge, so will probably go with one of the compensated bridge options.

[Larry Mal]

I mean, if your wraparound bridge isn't compensated, then absolutely, get a compensated one.

While you are at it get some locking studs for the bridge, anchor that baby down.

You do still have two adjustment screws on them, by the way, look on the rear of your bridge and you'll see two Allen wrench accessible screws back there. Between those two and a compensated bridge, you will have intonation as good as any acoustic guitar can have and those can sound great, right? So you don't need a bridge with independently adjustable saddles.

I like these guys.

A wraparound bridge can sound great, by the way. They aren't necessarily a downgrade from the bridges with independently adjustable saddles.

[pocaloc]

Thanks Larry. I think I'll go ahead and get a compensated bridge. I'm curious why it sounds so out of tune. Maybe the bridge slipped in transit and that's causing all sorts of problems.

[pocaloc]

Well the 11’s solved the slipping of the edge of the fretboard problem. I think it might’ve had 9’s on there. It still sounds out of tune but not nearly as bad.

[mijmog]

You'll probably need to define "out of tune" to get more detailed help - can you get it playing in tune along the first 5 frets and then it starts to drift out higher up the neck? If so, the overall intonation is out and the adjustment screws will need working on. If its just the G string thats out then thats normal for this setup, and it can be worked on, it depends on your OCD and what kind of music you are making! Think of it as similar to an acoustic.

There's always a degree of compensation with these bridges, luckily the guitar and "guitar music" can cope with minor discrepancies and with the standard bridge you should be able to get it playing in tune, with only the G string suffering noticeably. You could always try a wound third, which was what the design was intended for. What most people do is to temper the entire guitar by tuning the 3rd and 4th strings slightly sharp so that certain positions which are more vulnerable to the ear sound more "in". If major thirds sound out then that is a classic symptom for the this kind of bridge and it can be tempered. Someone better than me can explain in writing, but I'll try and find a link later - just google "tempered tuning for wraparound bridges". I do it a really bad way, I just tune to certain chords that I use a lot, then back it off so it sounds more or less in at the 12th fret, then after a while you start automatically adding vibrato or bending the dodgy strings to compensate. Watch as the dogs start to howl.

If you're really crazy about intonation then this setup won't be for you, if you're playing super clean chords with lots of open strings then it may drive you crazy, but if you're using drive and fuzz and are happy to make the slight shonkiness work for you and your band then it can be a good thing!

However, I would get the nut looked at first before making any decisions about the bridge. A new nut can also iron out any string alignment issues you may have. I can't recommend a good setup enough. There are other factors at play, take a look at the neck angle and the string angle in relation to it, if your bridge is high and your action around the 12th fret is therefore higher than the first few frets, you're having to pull the strings down further and therefore pulling the strings sharp at this point, it can drive you mad when setting the intonation, so you lower the bridge, then your strings start to buzz, so then you need to do the truss rod - see why a setup is important?

This is happening to my old Firebird but for other reasons, its suffering from the famed "neck kickup" on old Gibsons - the neck is bending upward slightly after the fretboard leaves the body, therefore creating greater distance between the higher frets and the strings. I remember taking my Firebird to the great Clive Brown once, who in his dulcet Yorkshire accent just said "bit fooked this mate". He is a huge fan of Juniors and Specials, and said with the right adjustment and care, you can get a Gibson with that setup to be in tune just with an old plain stop tail as a bridge, if you know how to get the action and the intonation just right. Its a constant moving target though, you adjust one and the other changes, then the cycle repeats as you go back and forth.

For the adjustment threads, drop a tiny drop of machine oil, and I mean tiny (a pin head amount) onto the threads as they will seize up with moisture from your hands over time, I know mine did.

I've used a wraparound bridge guitar solely for 15 years, and have tried many of the types, the Faber bridge that Larry Mal mentioned is pretty much perfect and does the job for me, the best of both worlds. I have found that 11 gauge strings make the whole guitar feel better, I think the tension is superb with these bridges, akin to playing an acoustic and haven't had any issues with that.

If you're really bothered about the intonation being as accurate as possible, you'll have to give up on the aesthetics and get one of these. Much better than those Badass briges you used to see on every LP Special that had been modded in the 80s and 90s.

There's also this, the Mojoaxe bridge but I think, correct me if I'm wrong, it only works with vintage and historic stud spacing so check before you buy.

[Larry Mal]

I bought one of those MojoAxe bridges for my father in law's '57 Les Paul Special, not sure if he's used it yet or not- it was a Christmas thing- but it was a nice bridge, no doubt. Again though, I think that they are designed for explicitly vintage instruments.

Your Firebird is kicking up at where the neck and body meet? That sucks- I have to wonder how that is possible with a nine-ply laminate neck through body? Or is it a non-reverse Firebird?

[mijmog]

Your Firebird is kicking up at where the neck and body meet? That sucks- I have to wonder how that is possible with a nine-ply laminate neck through body? Or is it a non-reverse Firebird?

its a non-reverse, the neck kicks up as it leaves the body. Only slightly, with the last fret job the luthier just compensated the level of the higher frets to suit. I saw it with a straight edge, it was slight but it was alarming!

[pocaloc]

Thanks for the information. I'm going to put a little time and money into the thing. I played it last night and like the sound and feel. When I say "out of tune" what I mean is the strings are all in tune, but when I strum an open chord it sounds like it's out of tune or sharp/flat, even though the individual strings are tuned to the correct pitch. I'm not one that needs perfect intonation so I will pursue getting this guitar to it's best state, but I need to be able to play open chords and have them sound good.

[MechaBulletBill]

That sounds like the nut needs to be adjusted.

[Embenny]

Thanks for the information. I'm going to put a little time and money into the thing. I played it last night and like the sound and feel. When I say "out of tune" what I mean is the strings are all in tune, but when I strum an open chord it sounds like it's out of tune or sharp/flat, even though the individual strings are tuned to the correct pitch. I'm not one that needs perfect intonation so I will pursue getting this guitar to it's best state, but I need to be able to play open chords and have them sound good.

Are the fretted notes of the open chords sharp? If so, it's because the nut is slotted too shallow. It's often overlooked and these things are blamed on the bridge.

[pocaloc]

Thanks for the information. I'm going to put a little time and money into the thing. I played it last night and like the sound and feel. When I say "out of tune" what I mean is the strings are all in tune, but when I strum an open chord it sounds like it's out of tune or sharp/flat, even though the individual strings are tuned to the correct pitch. I'm not one that needs perfect intonation so I will pursue getting this guitar to it's best state, but I need to be able to play open chords and have them sound good.

Are the fretted notes of the open chords sharp? If so, it's because the nut is slotted too shallow. It's often overlooked and these things are blamed on the bridge.

Yeah the fretted notes are a little sharp. I’m going to take it in to be set-up, I don’t have the skills to work on it myself. I’m going to go ahead and get a bridge so I can have the guitar tech set it all up at once. What do you guys think of this bridge?

http://www.tonepros.com/vtna-tonepros-v ... ing-studs/

I see this one has locking studs, does the one you suggest come with locking studs?

[pocaloc]

Just verified with my tuner that the fretted notes are flat. D sounded bad from the beginning so this makes perfect sense, Thanks

[Larry Mal]

What do you guys think of this bridge?

http://www.tonepros.com/vtna-tonepros-v ... ing-studs/

I see this one has locking studs, does the one you suggest come with locking studs?

I'm very much in favor of locking studs, but I don't see that bridge as being compensated. I would very much recommend a bridge that is compensated, especially if you use a string set with an unwound G (which you almost certainly are).

[Embenny]

What do you guys think of this bridge?

http://www.tonepros.com/vtna-tonepros-v ... ing-studs/

I see this one has locking studs, does the one you suggest come with locking studs?

I'm very much in favor of locking studs, but I don't see that bridge as being compensated. I would very much recommend a bridge that is compensated, especially if you use a string set with an unwound G (which you almost certainly are).

That model is referred to as a wraparound tailpiece. I don't think it's meant to be used as a bridge.

On their wraparound page, they have 3 other models with adjustable saddles that would work much better.

[Larry Mal]

That model is referred to as a wraparound tailpiece. I don't think it's meant to be used as a bridge.

Ha! Yeah, I missed that. Funny, there was a time when I was looking at that and something seemed vaguely wrong, but I couldn't put my finger on it and dismissed it.

So much for my expert opinion.