Jazzmaster goes out of tune with vibrato usage (with Mastery)?

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Jazzmaster goes out of tune with vibrato usage (with Mastery)?

Post by kingmedicine » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:24 am

Hi all,

I recently purchased a Mastery bridge to check out as I have an incoming JM body and neck from MJT. I already have another JM that had the StayTrem bridge on it, but I figured I'd put the Mastery on this new one just to have something different.

Well the Mastery arrived and I replaced the StayTrem on my current JM just to see how it sounded/felt different, but I'm having problems with the guitar staying in tune even with mild vibrato usage now (seems equally bad when working the vibrato in either direction). With both bridges, I have been using 10 gauge strings (which I realize may be a little lighter than most), but I never had a problem staying in tune with the StayTrem even with heavy vibrato usage. So, just curious:

- Do any of you lubricate your Mastery bridge slots or anything?
- Has any one else noticed a difference in tuning stability re: Mastery vs. StayTrem? I feel like I've read that the Mastery is supposed to be quite stable even with 10s, so maybe there's something I'm missing with my setup.

I realize the strings sliding over the slots is a different design than the floating bridge, so maybe the StayTrem is just the way to go...but I do like the way the Mastery changes the feel in general (and not having the strings run up against the back of the bridge edge anymore).

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Re: Jazzmaster goes out of tune with vibrato usage (with Mastery)?

Post by _nash » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:40 am

My money is on the nut. Most nuts come from the factory with guide slots rather than slots that are cut to correct width (they don’t know what strings you’ll use). If you’re using 10s, you’re nut slots are probably too narrow.

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Re: Jazzmaster goes out of tune with vibrato usage (with Mastery)?

Post by Embenny » Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:46 am

_nash wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:40 am
My money is on the nut. Most nuts come from the factory with guide slots rather than slots that are cut to correct width (they don’t know what strings you’ll use). If you’re using 10s, you’re nut slots are probably too narrow.
That was my initial thought as well, but it's a little bit strange that he had no issues on the same guitar with the Staytrem, though. Then again, there's the matter of sliding across the saddle vs the bridge floating, so maybe that translated to a different amount of string movement at the nut?
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Re: Jazzmaster goes out of tune with vibrato usage (with Mastery)?

Post by spacecadet » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:12 am

I'm always suspicious of non-floating bridges on Jazzmasters... it's one of the reasons I went with a Staytrem over a Mastery for my AVRI. These guitars were designed with floating bridges; dragging the strings over both the saddles and the nut just isn't what the trem on Jazzmasters and Jaguars was designed for.

With the Staytrem, the strings stay in place on the saddles and the bridge moves freely. Tuning is held by the strings returning to their original tension. That's the same design as the original bridge. With the Mastery, the bridge doesn't move, so something else has got to give. But there's a lot more resistance at the saddles, so if you move the strings one way with the trem, there's no guarantee they're going to move back to exactly their original positions.

I guess you could try greasing it up a little bit.

Your nut may also benefit from some lubrication; people often use pencil lead, although I'd probably use something more purpose-formulated. But it may be that it's actually the combination of binding at the nut and binding at the bridge that's making tuning issues noticeable to you now, with the new bridge. Your nut may have been binding before too, but you might not have noticed it as much, or at all.

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Re: Jazzmaster goes out of tune with vibrato usage (with Mastery)?

Post by mekhem » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:10 pm

Did you change strings when changing the bridge?

If not - change the strings and use some graphite on the bridge and nut slots.

Anyway - every couple of string changes I use some white graphite (maybe a little OCD about pencil on a white nut) on the bridge and in the nut. I use it on StayTrem and Mastery bridges.
Last edited by mekhem on Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jazzmaster goes out of tune with vibrato usage (with Mastery)?

Post by kingmedicine » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:32 am

Thanks for the feedback guys! Hmm yeah, maybe I'll check the nut again. It was recently set up and the nut slots were lubricated, fresh set of strings when the bridge went on too. I'll try some sort of lubrication on the bridge too.

I guess worst case, I could sell the Mastery and pick up two StayTrems for the price!

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Re: Jazzmaster goes out of tune with vibrato usage (with Mastery)?

Post by fuzzking » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:17 pm

almost all bridges, except for the worst of the worst, are fine in case the basic setup is correct. slot width/string gauge would be my first suspicion. nut: the strings should be able to slide easily through the slots. basic lubing: just rub a standard pencil across the nut, wipe off excess. this with strings out of the slots. graphite dust will collect in the slots. let strings snap back in, then wipe off ugly excess between the strings. nevermind some discoloration of the nut, it will only look more vintage. advanced: you can also mix some pencil dust (just rub a pencil across some sand paper, collect the dust) with a tiny amount of vaseline. that's the stuff they're trying to sell you at exorbital rates in guitar stores (nut sauce, etc.). but if the slots are cut too narrow for the string size, either the slots will have to be widened or you'll need to switch to a lighter string gauge. 5 bucks for a trial run and you'll see whether that fixes the problem. in case it seems to fix the problem but if you don't like the gauge: have the nut re-cut. or just widen the slots by dragging the strings of your preferred gauge (in a sane ratio, e.g. you'd have a prob widening a 9 slot with a 13 string) across the their respective slots, length-wise, with crazy tension, applied close to the nut (both thumbs resting left and right of the nut, as close as possible, this as a means to reduce perpendicular movement) .... you'll notice the exact moment it starts feeling as if there were no resistance. imagine the string as a saw settling into its own perfect groove, and when there's little resistance, stop at this point. i don't think it's the bridge. still might be the case, but usual suspect is the nut. also: strings. stay away from d'addario and the like. get strings with fabric-wound ends. cheap makes seem to unravel faster at crucial points. did you stretch the strings during change? as in: tune up to pitch. then yank at the fuckers. even better: apply a steady pull with your picking hand when tuning up to pitch for the first time. give em a steady backwards pull, close to the bridge. don't be afraid of lifting them out of the slots. as far as about 5cms / 2" away from the body should be perfectly fine. re-tune. re-yank. re-tune. should be done in a minute or so. in case they won't stay in tune (without trem usage, just to single out the culprit): they're shite strings. do you hear any clicking when using the trem (acoustically, no amp involved)? contact points of moving parts might be involved. in case of clicking, you can feel it with your trem hand, most often the trem (or string/trem contact points) is/are involved. use the trem, watch the ball ends. ball ends should only get in contact with their respective bearings and nothing else. they shouldn't touch the trem plate or any other part at any point, even with massive trem force (transversal force) being applied. only longitudinal forces should be involved. (well, err... i guess about 79% should be fine). tuners: i guess any kind of modern tuners should be fine... did you pull at the strings real good while winding the tuners up? sometimes i have people coming into my house complaining their guitar doesn't stay in tune, and upon first sight the string windings are just a loose mess. easy fix: unwind, re-insert, and even during the first winding, gradually start applying some backwards force to the string by pinching and bending it between your picking hand's stretched out thump and pinky, close to the bridge, applying as much force as you can without breaking the string. might feel weird for the first few times, but makes for a semi decent winding at least. this only to make sure the string is wound tightly enough during first setup. loose peghead windings will not allow for consistent pitch with any kind of bending/trem usage. strings need to be tight as fuck, and at the same time need be allowed to slide across contact areas with least possible resistance.
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Re: Jazzmaster goes out of tune with vibrato usage (with Mastery)?

Post by northernlights » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:26 pm

you say its not floating, i use mastery too, i can see that's floating back and forth. im very pleased of its tune improvement. lower the two pivots and raise the saddles. make the same string height by doin that. try it and lets talk. i've not tried staytrem, i'd like to try but it's out of stocks now :(

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Re: Jazzmaster goes out of tune with vibrato usage (with Mastery)?

Post by Mondaysoutar » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:26 pm

Hi,

I just happened across this and am having tuning issues with a basically brand new American Original JM so thought you might be able to help?

I took it back to the tech and he checked intonation, which I’d done already, but he said it was fine after some minor adjustments, but it’s still going out of tune or sounds out of tune on mainly the G and B string. I haven’t lubricated the nut or bridge, or set the tension on the trem unit, so would these be the first things to do?

Thanks in advance troops.

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Re: Jazzmaster goes out of tune with vibrato usage (with Mastery)?

Post by Danley » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:32 pm

Are you bumping this thread because you are also having issues with a Mastery? Or are you using the stock bridge? Did you have problems before if so?

Most generalized tuning issues affect the heavier strings to a greater degree than the light/high strings, unless the nut is really gripping one particular string - I would check the nut/saddles carefully on those strings falling out of tune.
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Re: Jazzmaster goes out of tune with vibrato usage (with Mastery)?

Post by Mondaysoutar » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:51 pm

Ah sorry, I should’ve said I’m on the stock bridge man. I’m using 11 gauge strings as standard on my Jazzmaster, always done that. Had a Japanese 62 reissue and a Vintera Mod before, didn’t have any issues with tuning so thought when I went top of the range I’d be fine too!

So, maybe I’ll put some pencil lead on the bridge slots and nut first would you say? I had noticed a little pinging when tuning up the G, so hopefully it’s just something really simple. Any help getting to the bottom of this would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks man.

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Re: Jazzmaster goes out of tune with vibrato usage (with Mastery)?

Post by Danley » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:58 pm

Pinging is def. a symptom of nut issues, I’d take it to a luthier for filing.
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Re: Jazzmaster goes out of tune with vibrato usage (with Mastery)?

Post by Mondaysoutar » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:22 pm

I’ve been pretty dissatisfied with the tech from the place I bought it man, and if it’s just a small problem which it surely is, I want to do it myself.

I’ve read that dealing with friction in the nut slots or bridge saddles can be solved with lubrication, so I’ll give that a shot. So it’s just a matter of removing the strings, putting pencil lead mixed with some vaseline into the slots and saddles, moving a string up and down to check for burrs, then that’s it? Would giving my trem a proper set up(which I thought would’ve been done on an American made guitar) could also help with tuning stability?

All in all I couldn’t be happier with the guitar, but I’m a little disappointed that it’s not been set up either in the store or by Fender.

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Re: Jazzmaster goes out of tune with vibrato usage (with Mastery)?

Post by andy_tchp » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:28 pm

Nope.

If you want the cause actually fixed the nut slots need to be properly cut. If the slots are too narrow any lubrication will at best mask the symptoms for a short while, until the lubricant is pushed out by string pressure/movement. (Properly cut but slots don't require any lubrication to provide tuning stability.)

This is sadly pretty standard for new Fender guitars, and should be taken care of as part of a full setup.
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Re: Jazzmaster goes out of tune with vibrato usage (with Mastery)?

Post by Mondaysoutar » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:32 pm

Ah ok man.

So I’ll file them a bit to check for burrs then do the pencil with Vaseline thing? I’d read the build quality on top of the range Fenders was pretty much immaculate too, but maybe I’m just unlucky with this one. As I say, I’m hopeful it’s a small problem and I can get back to enjoying the instrument.

What about the trem unit, you think doing a step by step set up on that will help or you’re thinking it’s the nut?

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