Fender Mustang detuning problem...

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supersonicjazzmaster
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Fender Mustang detuning problem...

Post by supersonicjazzmaster » Wed Sep 27, 2017 5:51 am

Hi,

I don´t know, maybe this is asked before? (maybe someone has a link to a thread, I didn´t found something...)

Ok, I have a detuning problem with my Fender Mustang MG69 reissue. It´s the orange "Beck" model w. matching head.
Th enut is worked out vey good, everything feels good except when I touch the trem arm... The guitar is out of tune very fast...
I tried even a new bought bridge unit... nothing changed.
Has anyone several experiences?

When I use the trem arm while playing, it stays 1-2 mm´s in a different position... So, the springs are not strong enough???

...I have another Mustang (The 72 reissue in OTM with matching head) and a Jagstang (with original 1965 Mustang trem unit built in) with no detuning issues at all...
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Re: Fender Mustang detuning problem...

Post by somebodyelseuk » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:54 am

Nut slots are always the first place to look.If the strings are not moving freely the string tension on the playing side of the nut will change. That's why the trem won't return, and that's why strings go out of tune.
First, the slots MUST be the wide enough for the strings not to stick in them - lubrication is a complete waste of time IF the slots aren't right in the first place.
Next, any string trees need to be low enough to hold the string against the bottom of the nut slot, but NOT screwed down flat against the head. THIS will also cause tuning problems.

AFTER you're sure the above are sorted, check the trem springs aren't catching on anything in the trem cavity - usually you can feel/hear if they are. If the first two items aren't right, though, you will never sort the tuning out.

Tuning problems are almost never down to cheap tuners, and on reputable brands, rarely down to cheap trem units.

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Re: Fender Mustang detuning problem...

Post by supersonicjazzmaster » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:16 am

Thanks for reply.

The nut is good, strings are in good working positions.
I guess the problem is the spring in the trem unit. Or both springs...
I can hear some minimal sounds out off this area... ( I believe I hear it... :wacko: )
...I will check another trem unit.
It starts... when it begins.
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Re: Fender Mustang detuning problem...

Post by MKR » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:07 am

the mustang trem is pretty finnicky i find, but it's pretty good when you dial it in. The only way your nut is an issue is if the guitar goes sharp after you use your trem. If it's going flat then you tremolo needs to be set up better.

i would recommend setting it up with the maximum amount of tension on the springs. 2 ways to do this. Do both of them. Firstly move the springs down as low as possible on the pegs. there are 3 notches. move them to the bottom notches. Secondly, move the cigar/hot dog tube thing down so it sits as low as it can to the body of the guitar without actually touching the body.

Do that and you'll be good. Also the springs will have to adjust and settle into their new tensions so give it a bit of time.

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Re: Fender Mustang detuning problem...

Post by supersonicjazzmaster » Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:33 am

Ah, the springs, yes.
I remember I did something years ago on another Mustang or Jagstang?
It was not easy to get the springs in an other position. It´s not easy to do it.
I´ll try.
keep you updated :)
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Re: Fender Mustang detuning problem...

Post by supersonicjazzmaster » Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:41 am

Here´s a video from 2012 where I played the Mustang live.
I remember it was a disaster to play the Mustang.. I tried not to touch the trem arm at all..
I liked the sound, hope I get the Mustang back to stage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwUuH_Yphvk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Fender Mustang detuning problem...

Post by Mad-Mike » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:34 am

The Sixties units were always better in my opinion. I owned a 1966 Fender Mustang, for a time my Jag-Stang wore that guitar's trem unit.

How new is that Mustang, or what year is it? There seems there was a period at least where Fender started using some pretty janky Mustang vibrato units on their guitars, around the time the 1965 Reissues came out if I recall. I know because I rebuilt my Jag-Stang's vibrato around that time (the original one) and I had to do some metal-work to make things work.

The main problem being that the vibrato plate does not have a knife edge inside the post holes. This was why my 1966 vibrato worked so well, it was done like this from the factory, but whatever importer Fender is using for the current crop of Mustang vibratos is missing this vital step on the newer units and it's making them handle very badly. The way to fix it is to use a countersink drill bit to grind-in a knife edge, and after that, it should return to true.

I also tend to set my vibratos up in a very specific way. I re-writing and planning to re-photograph the process sometime soon for a new website I'm building around my youtube channel as Photobucket jacked up my original Jag-Stang.com post from like, 14 years ago or whatever. Decided maybe I should host it on my site instead, that way I don't have to go digging on some forum, and I can update it more readily as things change and evolve.

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Re: Fender Mustang detuning problem...

Post by supersonicjazzmaster » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:25 am

Hi,

the serial number is:
Made In Japan
U 014775
So I guess it´s from 2010?
There was also a run of japanese fenders with U and 6 digits in ´95/´96.

Yes, the 60´s units are definitely better, I have the same experience.

What is the "knife edge" in the post holes? Do you have a pic from the area which you mean is better in the 60s units please?
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Re: Fender Mustang detuning problem...

Post by MechaBulletBill » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:51 am

I had a recent MG73 (a 2015 model I think, owned for about a year) and the vibrato plate was just too damn soft. It wore away alarmingly quickly and was creaky and unpleasant to use. Might it be worth getting a Faction Guitars mustang vibrato plate and mounting the rest of the vibrato to it? I imagine Faction would make sure the knife edge was all good.

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Re: Fender Mustang detuning problem...

Post by Mad-Mike » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:24 am

supersonicjazzmaster wrote:Hi,

the serial number is:
Made In Japan
U 014775
So I guess it´s from 2010?
There was also a run of japanese fenders with U and 6 digits in ´95/´96.

Yes, the 60´s units are definitely better, I have the same experience.

What is the "knife edge" in the post holes? Do you have a pic from the area which you mean is better in the 60s units please?
I'll post pics later, I need to pull one of the flat ones out I have in my Jag-Stang's case.

U014775 - depending on how thick the font on the "Made in Japan" serial is could determine what year. My Jag-Stang is U023314, it's a 1995-96' model. The Made in Japan font is thin. I used to have a Mustang Bass from 2008 that had the thick "Made In Japan" font on it.

Here's a picture of a sixties unit notice the holes the legs for the "cigar tube" go through are beveled, that's how they should be to hold tune the best. On modern Mustangs/Jag-Stangs if I set them up for vibrato and they don' thave that I use a countersink bit in a drill to grind a knife edge into the hole on both sides. On my Jag-Stang currently I'm experimenting with with a 60 degree angle pivot which ash been the most stable thing thus far. Did not even have to do my long convoluted setup with it.

Notice how the holes are beveled around the edges. My Jag-Stang had this from the factory as well (probably one reason it stays in tune so well), but when I replaced the original plate, it totally lacked that knife-edge bevel and was AWFUL - a test to see if that theory was true, and it turned out to be. Looking around, it looks like Fender saw me or someone else griping about it somewhere and went back to beveling the post holes on some of the newer Fender Dynamic Vibrato units.
Image

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Re: Fender Mustang detuning problem...

Post by supersonicjazzmaster » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:53 am

Hi,

thanks for the infos and pics!
I guess the font on my Mustang is the thick version?
And, yes, I am sure, the two areas on the plate area the problem. Mine is the cheap version...
Very interesting, those two tiny millimeter areas are ruining the complete guitar. Thank you for saving money in your productions Fender!

Ok, I´ll try to file on those two parts on the plate. I made pics of this area below, so you can see there is a lack of the chrome a bit. I remember I tried this before a few years ago!!!
So I guess I need more radical tools.
Let the Mustang disaster cotinue

Image


Image


Image


Image


Image


Image
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Re: Fender Mustang detuning problem...

Post by supersonicjazzmaster » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:24 am

Mad-Mike wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:24 am
supersonicjazzmaster wrote:Hi,

the serial number is:
Made In Japan
U 014775
So I guess it´s from 2010?
There was also a run of japanese fenders with U and 6 digits in ´95/´96.

Yes, the 60´s units are definitely better, I have the same experience.

What is the "knife edge" in the post holes? Do you have a pic from the area which you mean is better in the 60s units please?
I'll post pics later, I need to pull one of the flat ones out I have in my Jag-Stang's case.

U014775 - depending on how thick the font on the "Made in Japan" serial is could determine what year. My Jag-Stang is U023314, it's a 1995-96' model. The Made in Japan font is thin. I used to have a Mustang Bass from 2008 that had the thick "Made In Japan" font on it.

Here's a picture of a sixties unit notice the holes the legs for the "cigar tube" go through are beveled, that's how they should be to hold tune the best. On modern Mustangs/Jag-Stangs if I set them up for vibrato and they don' thave that I use a countersink bit in a drill to grind a knife edge into the hole on both sides. On my Jag-Stang currently I'm experimenting with with a 60 degree angle pivot which ash been the most stable thing thus far. Did not even have to do my long convoluted setup with it.

Notice how the holes are beveled around the edges. My Jag-Stang had this from the factory as well (probably one reason it stays in tune so well), but when I replaced the original plate, it totally lacked that knife-edge bevel and was AWFUL - a test to see if that theory was true, and it turned out to be. Looking around, it looks like Fender saw me or someone else griping about it somewhere and went back to beveling the post holes on some of the newer Fender Dynamic Vibrato units.
Image
Alright! A big big thanks to Mad-Mike!!!!
Fixed it! Like you assumed, it was the knife edges on the trem unit. I filed them more, so they are really bevelled now. I used a good metal file. At last it was not so much work.
I put the springs into the nearest position to the trem unit, screwed all together, tuned everything, started playing.
Yessss!!!!!! After a few years now of giving up with this guitar I did it with the help of Mad-Mike!
Whooohooooo!!!!!!
It starts... when it begins.
Ralf Kilauea

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Re: Fender Mustang detuning problem...

Post by arsensaryyev » Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:36 am

Hello. Which diameter in this holes?

Image

What diameter drill did you use to countersink the cigar pivot holes?
Last edited by arsensaryyev on Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fender Mustang detuning problem...

Post by lastlol » Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:33 am

Image
https://reverb.com/item/36082784-genuin ... ?locale=fr
If you can find an American Performer Mustang tremolo, they work perfectly. I have two Mustangs, an American Performer that stays in tune even with heavy tremolo use, and a parts one with a Japanese tremolo. I spent a long time setting it up, it's better than it was, but far from being as good as the american tremolo
edit : I just saw you found a solution, great, I should try it on my second Mustang !

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Re: Fender Mustang detuning problem...

Post by Pacafeliz » Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:47 am

My '71 compstang does constantly go out of tune it's no fun. Will try everything from here, thanks!
i love delay SO much ...that i procrastinate all the time.

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