Correct String Nut height at 1st Fret???

[Larsongs]

Just got a JMJM. The Action is really high. I did a basic Setup. Adjust Relief, Bridge Height & Intonation.

I did a Search but couldn't find anything here that covers this? Probably me. Oh well......

I called Fender they said, The String height at the Nut & 1st Fret should be .020mm. My Feeler Gauge goes as high as .027mm & the String height is way higher than that. I presume the Frets need Filing. Which I've never done before. Although I have Files In my Set up Tool Kit.

Are there standard String Height Measurements or Specs for Guitars? Are they all the same? Doubt it? Is there a Link here anyone can direct me to about String Height Specs & how to File Nuts?

Thanks,

Lars

[_nash]

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, I'm mainly throw off by the fret filing comment. I don't see anything in your post that leads me to believe your frets need filing.
But the string height at the nut and first fret is the same (at least roughly). This means the height above the second fret when fretting the first is the same as the height above the first fret with an open string. With the string open, if the height above the first is higher then the height above the second when fretting the first the nut must be filed down. This assumes the guitar is otherwise set up correctly.

[Larsongs]

I'm not understanding?

If I press the first fret & put my Feeler Gauge on the Fretboard between the Nut & 1st Fret the String is more than .027mm above the fretboard. My Feeler Gauge only goes as high as .027mm & there's quite a bit of space between the top of the Feeler Gauge & the bottom of the a String.

According to Fender it should be .020 for all 6 Strings.

The Action is way high.

I've adjusted the Relief to .010 on 5th - 7th Fret. Using a Capo on the 1st Fret & holding down the string on the Fret where the Neck meets the Body with my finger. I've lowered the Bridge as much as I could without buzzing on any of the Strings adjusted the Intonation as best I could given the quality of the Bridge. Close but not perfect.

Still the Action is way high. The High Action problem appears to start with the String height on the Nut (Slots). Does that make sense? What do you recommend?

Thanks,

Lars

PS is there a source for recommended Specs as to what the String Height should be at the 1st Fret & the String height on the Fret where the Neck meets the Body for various types & makes of Guitars?

[andy_tchp]

You should be measuring the gap between the string and the top of the first fret, when the string is pressed between the second and third frets.

The .020" figure sounds way too high for acceptable action and intonation across the first few frets.

.002" would be closer to the mark - you want there to be almost no clearance at all.

Proper nut files are available from Stew-Mac. I paid $40-$50 for mine IIRC.


The frets.com explanation by Frank Ford is a good one:
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musicia ... ction.html

[eternal learner]

The method shown in the link is how i set up the nut. I'm sure it was a dan erhlwine video that i learned it from. The actual clearance figures i shoot for are .010" at the low E string and .006" at the high E string and the other strings incremented between the two E strings. This is a good time to buy a few bone nuts from the chinese sellers on eBay, only a couple of dollars or so each, so you can afford to make cock ups and learn by trial and error on the cheap!

[Larsongs]

You should be measuring the gap between the string and the top of the first fret, when the string is pressed between the second and third frets.

The .020" figure sounds way too high for acceptable action and intonation across the first few frets.

.002" would be closer to the mark - you want there to be almost no clearance at all.

Proper nut files are available from Stew-Mac. I paid $40-$50 for mine IIRC.


The frets.com explanation by Frank Ford is a good one:
http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musicia ... ction.html

I called Fender. They told me .020mm. I bought a Set Up Tool Kit with Files.

Being a new Guitar under Warranty I'm hesitant about Filing the Nut & voiding the Warranty. That said I do want to learn how it should be done. I may do it anyway as I want to be able to do my own Set ups.

Thanks,

Lars

[Larsongs]

The method shown in the link is how i set up the nut. I'm sure it was a dan erhlwine video that i learned it from. The actual clearance figures i shoot for are .010" at the low E string and .006" at the high E string and the other strings incremented between the two E strings. This is a good time to buy a few bone nuts from the chinese sellers on eBay, only a couple of dollars or so each, so you can afford to make cock ups and learn by trial and error on the cheap!

I've done some more researching & it seems like every article or video recommends different heights? Is there a Source for recommended heights for various Makers Guitars? Or is it somewhat subjective to personal taste?

I'll order some of those Bone Nuts. Anyone you recommend?

Thanks,

Lars

[MKR]

here's how you will know if your nut is cut too high:
assuming your intonation is set up and good. Play the E string while holding down the first fret with a tuner. It should read an F. If the tuner is showing that it's sharp, then you need to file down that slot and lower the string. easy as that.

you just have to work slow and check often. the one bad thing you could do is file too much. but don't worry about that happening. if you check frequently and work slow, you won't mess it up.

and don't worry about voiding your warranty - as if they could even prove you did anything! Squier butcher their nuts on a regular basis. just say that is how you received the guitar in the first place.

i think you will benefit from doing this work yourself. the more of this stuff you do, the more you will know. warranty shmarranty - i always have to take my files to a nut whenever i get a new guitar. 90% of nuts on cheap/mid level guitars are cut too tight out of the factory.

Actually the one time i ever had to use fender's warranty was on a fender pawnshop bass VI. They ended up replacing my neck as the truss rod was maxed out (i purchased the guitar new) and did so without any hassle. The idea that they would have voided the warranty because someone suspected the nut had some extra work done to it is laughable and would have been ridiculous customer sservice.

[_nash]

From what I've read of your posts I suggest really making sure you understand the terms being discussed. Or I'm really confused...

It's a bit of preference, BUT if the nut (slots) are too tall then when you play on the low frets, open chords, etc., you'll notice the fretted strings pulling sharp. It'll feel stiff and probably hurt your fingers after a while. Have you seen guitars with a zero fret? The zero fret is used so the nut doesn't change the height of an open string. Without a zero fret, you just need to make sure the nut (slots) are correctly cut. This, on any guitar, shouldn't void any warranty and is almost ALWAYS necessary from the factory. Guitars are not really set up from the factory.

[Larsongs]

here's how you will know if your nut is cut too high:
assuming your intonation is set up and good. Play the E string while holding down the first fret with a tuner. It should read an F. If the tuner is showing that it's sharp, then you need to file down that slot and lower the string. easy as that.

you just have to work slow and check often. the one bad thing you could do is file too much. but don't worry about that happening. if you check frequently and work slow, you won't mess it up.

and don't worry about voiding your warranty - as if they could even prove you did anything! Squier butcher their nuts on a regular basis. just say that is how you received the guitar in the first place.

i think you will benefit from doing this work yourself. the more of this stuff you do, the more you will know. warranty shmarranty - i always have to take my files to a nut whenever i get a new guitar. 90% of nuts on cheap/mid level guitars are cut too tight out of the factory.

Actually the one time i ever had to use fender's warranty was on a fender pawnshop bass VI. They ended up replacing my neck as the truss rod was maxed out (i purchased the guitar new) and did so without any hassle. The idea that they would have voided the warranty because someone suspected the nut had some extra work done to it is laughable and would have been ridiculous customer sservice.

Thanks for your input.

Lars

[Larsongs]

From what I've read of your posts I suggest really making sure you understand the terms being discussed. Or I'm really confused...

It's a bit of preference, BUT if the nut (slots) are too tall then when you play on the low frets, open chords, etc., you'll notice the fretted strings pulling sharp. It'll feel stiff and probably hurt your fingers after a while. Have you seen guitars with a zero fret? The zero fret is used so the nut doesn't change the height of an open string. Without a zero fret, you just need to make sure the nut (slots) are correctly cut. This, on any guitar, shouldn't void any warranty and is almost ALWAYS necessary from the factory. Guitars are not really set up from the factory.

You're right. In my humble way I'm trying to explain as clearly as I can.

According to Fender the String height at the 1st Fret, from the Fretboard to the bottom of the String, should be .020 on all 6 Strings.

The way the Nut is cut the #6 String at the 1st Fret is significantly higher than .027mm (which is as high as my Feeler Gauge goes). The other 5 Strings are also too high.

I hope that is more clear.

I appreciate your knowledge.

Thank you,

Lars

[andy_tchp]

I would still refer to the frets.com article I referenced.

The reason being that the (frankly bizarre) measurement Fender provided doesn't account for the actual height of the fret (or frets that are worn) and assumes they are all the same size and uniformly level across every guitar they've produced, which is arrant nonsense.

I also wouldn't worry about voiding any warranty - Every guitar I own has seen my set of nut files, including my AVRI Jaguar.

As far as 'recommended heights' go I still recommend 'almost zero clearance between fret top and string with the string depressed between 2nd and 3rd frets' - I don't want to be able to fit anything thicker than a thin sheet of paper in that gap at the absolute most. Usually I take it close enough that you can only just tell that the string isn't touching the top of the fret.


My guitars played much easier and SO much more in tune once I'd figured this stuff out, I definitely recommend trying to learn this stuff yourself.

[andy]

Every fender or squier I've encountered in the last few years has needed a nut job. I just bought a brand new telecaster and it needed nut work done out of the box.

[eternal learner]

Larsongs those figures of ten thou inch down to six thou inch are in no way absolute, they were convenient figures to go for as given in one of the nut fitting/filing instructionals. To be clear those figures are the gap between the bottom of the string and the top of the first fret wire as the string is fretted behind the second fret as per the article in the link provided by andy-tchp. As to where to buy cheap bone nuts , eBay in luthier supplies a number of sellers based in hong kong and china sell basic gibson/epiphone and fender flat and curved bottom nuts already lightly slotted and oversized, so you just take your time sanding the bottom some and one of the edges then the individual slots. When you are happy with the fit and sizing only the smallest drop of glue is necessary, Do NOT use superglue as you need the small drop of glue to cure after you have strung up and aligned the nut to your satisfaction. Rather than glue, my preference is a couple of drops of shellac, so that next time the nut is removed it won't tear timber out with it. As i mentioned earlier it is a very cheap way to learn this job. Youtube is your friend.

[Larsongs]

Larsongs those figures of ten thou inch down to six thou inch are in no way absolute, they were convenient figures to go for as given in one of the nut fitting/filing instructionals. To be clear those figures are the gap between the bottom of the string and the top of the first fret wire as the string is fretted behind the second fret as per the article in the link provided by andy-tchp. As to where to buy cheap bone nuts , eBay in luthier supplies a number of sellers based in hong kong and china sell basic gibson/epiphone and fender flat and curved bottom nuts already lightly slotted and oversized, so you just take your time sanding the bottom some and one of the edges then the individual slots. When you are happy with the fit and sizing only the smallest drop of glue is necessary, Do NOT use superglue as you need the small drop of glue to cure after you have strung up and aligned the nut to your satisfaction. Rather than glue, my preference is a couple of drops of shellac, so that next time the nut is removed it won't tear timber out with it. As i mentioned earlier it is a very cheap way to learn this job. Youtube is your friend.

YouTube is definitely my friend!

Thanks for the info & Tips.

Lars

PS Here is the Set up Spec Sheet for all Guitars made by Fender the Rep sent me.

https://dl-mail.ymail.com/ws/download/m ... ZHRa_xD1WB" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;