Rocking bridge tilts towards neck over time

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Rocking bridge tilts towards neck over time

Post by d-f » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:07 pm

So I recently replaced the tune-o-matic thimbles in my CP jag body with the staytrem conversion thimbles and put back in the mustang bridge. In order for the bridge to intonate I had to move the saddles pretty close towards the neck. I've noticed a strange issue where the bridge seems to creep forward towards the neck over the course of the day. I'm wondering if it has to do with the fact that the saddles are closer to the neck than the actual bridge posts and the pressure of the strings sort of pulls the bridge forward. Is this normal for a rocking bridge? Is there anything I can do? Thanks!

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Re: Rocking bridge tilts towards neck over time

Post by Tree's » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:18 pm

Try a dab of string lubricant like nut sauce or graphite in the saddle grooves, ... should help.

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Re: Rocking bridge tilts towards neck over time

Post by soggy mittens » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:20 pm

increase break-angle.
If OSG has tort me anything...

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Re: Rocking bridge tilts towards neck over time

Post by mackerelmint » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:18 pm

chuck the guitar in a fire.
This is an excellent rectangle

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Re: Rocking bridge tilts towards neck over time

Post by soggy mittens » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:29 pm

mackerelmint wrote:chuck the guitar in a fire.
Image
If OSG has tort me anything...

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Re: Rocking bridge tilts towards neck over time

Post by jorri » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:40 am

soggy mittens wrote:increase break-angle.
no no no...

this is a symptom of too much break angle from the neck.

I had it once, but only when i had a neck shim: think about the angles, its converting that downward vector towards the neck.

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Re: Rocking bridge tilts towards neck over time

Post by d-f » Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:51 am

Does anyone with a rocking bridge + modern trem placement offset have any advice on this? I think maybe blacktop JMs and 50th anniversary Jaguars are examples.

If I can't fix this, I'm thinking of a) getting a new body with the traditional trem routing or b) getting a fixed bridge (like a mastery or roller bridge). The new body is more expensive than the mastery, but would it sound better? Anyone have a mastery on a "modern trem" offset?

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Re: Rocking bridge tilts towards neck over time

Post by jorri » Tue Jan 31, 2017 7:38 pm

The only thing that fixed it for me, was swapping saddles out to something with MORE friction. You don't need lubrication on rocking bridges, they rock instead and the string should firmly anchor because its designed to move with the string. I found this the case on a mustang bridge as its quite smooth and free to move, especially when i erroneously put graphite on the bridge thinking it would help tuning... but a cheap ebay chrome one worked fine, and also the one on my squier VI because there's a lot of friction....that's all IME, short of blocking out the posts, and experiment with neck shims (if found less works better, but others might have found more is better). If it gets to it, and you don't want to fully block the posts-on one JM with this problem i partially blocked out the posts, just one side with quite fiddly insulation tape so it still rocked but could never go more than halfway and solved the issue to an extent.

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Re: Rocking bridge tilts towards neck over time

Post by d-f » Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:24 am

I never lubricated the saddles, though I put a bit of graphite in the nut which I heard helps with tuning/trem action. Are you saying you replaced the saddles with less smooth ones, or replaced the whole bridge?

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Re: Rocking bridge tilts towards neck over time

Post by jorri » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:58 am

d-f wrote:I never lubricated the saddles, though I put a bit of graphite in the nut which I heard helps with tuning/trem action. Are you saying you replaced the saddles with less smooth ones, or replaced the whole bridge?
yes, but it seems like a very finnicky chaotic system...so on the the other hand you have a staytrem which people rave about, so i can't promise anything.
Just that it worked for me getting one of those £5 chinese knockoff bridges on ebay. They needed loctite but not as much as a fender, and are a modified mustang bridge so strings do not slip out of grooves...they are good bridges made of poor materials but it sounded more resonant than the mustang bridge...at £5 wasn't really a problem to spend that much. I'd tried 4 other more expensive solutions before settling on this one for a lot of reasons..

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Re: Rocking bridge tilts towards neck over time

Post by d-f » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:53 am

So I bought a $20 allparts jazzmaster/jaguar bridge on a whim to see how it would perform vs the mustang bridge, and it seems to have fixed this problem for me so far! I think the friction of the wound strings against the threaded saddles helps prevent the bridge from slipping underneath the strings.

I also now understand what people mention about the "plonkier" tone.

The closer E-to-E string spacing is a benefit too!

Fortunately, possibly due to the "modern" break angle, I'm not experiencing the string jumping issue at all.

I am getting some buzzing though, so I will pick up some loctite and see how that works.

Overall, I think the classic stock bridge is performing better (other than the buzzing) than the mustang bridge, oddly enough.

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Re: Rocking bridge tilts towards neck over time

Post by d-f » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:03 am

Just an update.

Loctite solved the rattling with the traditional bridge. I'm still seeing the tilting issue though, even with the stock bridge :( I tried raising the bridge a bit to raise the action and increase tension. It doesn't seem to have changed the slippage.

It does seem that the tension / break angle pushes on the bridge in such a way that the bridge "wants" to slip under the strings towards the neck.

For all you folks with JMJMs + staytrem bridges, do you experience this at all?

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Re: Rocking bridge tilts towards neck over time

Post by Danley » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:25 pm

I don't know about Staytrems but my stock Mustang did this... Till I removed the neck shim and decreased break angle, lowering the bridge overall. Never had the issue on a Jazzmaster or Jaguar.
King Buzzo: I love when people come up to me and say “Your guitar sound was better on Stoner Witch, when you used a Les Paul. “...I used a Fender Mustang reissue on that, dumbass!

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