Tuning Stability Attainable without Lubrication?

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alexpigment
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Re: Tuning Stability Attainable without Lubrication?

Post by alexpigment » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:48 pm

ek11sx wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:18 pm
No prob, I e done it as a gauge, never mentioned the results. It’s a good idea. Tomorrow when I’m not eating burgers and killing pumpkin beer I’ll get back
Sounds like a fine way to spend a Saturday :)

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Re: Tuning Stability Attainable without Lubrication?

Post by Danley » Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:00 pm

Pumpkin beer :shifty: Every microbrewery around here thinks it'll be 'cute' to have a pumpkin porter/stout on tap for the fall; except it usually stays Summer in SoCal through most of November, and no one wants to drink a heavy goddamn pumpkin stout at 90 degs. Worst: They seem to always over-produce these, and they take up a lot of tap space through about February.
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Re: Tuning Stability Attainable without Lubrication?

Post by ludobag1 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 12:38 am

seriously i don't lube my jazzmaster guitar and they stay in tune pretty well ,after i put new string and stretch them for a day ,they stay in tune really well ,at a rehearsale of 3 hours it is pretty rare that i have to retune ,and i use the trem a lot ,when they beguin to not stay in tune i know they are too old (and it is a little of tune)
i clean my string after playing all time and change string every month of playing on the guitar ,as i have more than one it is not rare that string stay for one year in one if it is unplayed (the more i have done is 4 years a set of string ,lol)
i have my nut perfectly cut , i use avri bridge and avri trem on them and with a little tweaking to made slot in the the saddle to avoid string jump when the bridge is new ,and a little graphite in nut slot when he is new i do nothing other than changing strings
new strings have to be stretch for stay in tune and it is like 10 min to make them stable ,the first day you play with you will have to retune a little and after they stay in tune for long (when we tour the case stay in the car with ,heat or cold and my jazz is still in tune )
you have to look your nut , the way you string for normal tuners,and how you have stretch the strings
the go sharp is a nut issue for sure ,the groove in have to be inclined in the direction of the tuners,and also not to be to tight ,just a little gap .01 mm maximum ,0 mm gap is bad cause if you put lubricant it will not move more

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Re: Tuning Stability Attainable without Lubrication?

Post by ek11sx » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:25 am

Danley wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:00 pm
Pumpkin beer :shifty: Every microbrewery around here thinks it'll be 'cute' to have a pumpkin porter/stout on tap for the fall; except it usually stays Summer in SoCal through most of November, and no one wants to drink a heavy goddamn pumpkin stout at 90 degs. Worst: They seem to always over-produce these, and they take up a lot of tap space through about February.
It’s gotta be an ale. Stouts are fine but pumpkin beer is best served in ale form

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Re: Tuning Stability Attainable without Lubrication?

Post by ek11sx » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:27 am

alexpigment wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:35 pm
ek11sx wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 9:48 am
New question:

How can my string, particularly the low ones, go sharp and stay sharp after depressing the tremolo?
One possibility: when you press down on the tremolo, the string is slacking behind the nut, then a burr or sharp edge is keeping it in that same spot behind the nut when you release the tremolo. The easiest test for this is pushing the string in question down behind the nut (just press it down somewhat firmly and then let it go). If the string stays sharp after that, it's binding at the nut. I really do feel like a broken record, but this is an easy test and every time I suggest it, no one ever reports back. Maybe I'm explaining it wrong or something.

The other possibility is that pressing down on the tremolo is allowing the bridge or saddle to return to its natural position, which is further back than it was.

Ok so I only had a few seconds but I grabbed the guitar, made sure it was tuned, and pushed down behind the nut on each string a decent amount. They all returned to pitch as far as I could tell.

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Re: Tuning Stability Attainable without Lubrication?

Post by MayTheFuzzBeWithYou » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:18 am

While I was pretty happy with my Jaguar‘s setup - since I upgraded to the Mastery Vibrato three weeks ago - it seems to get out of tune easier than before. I like its action, feel and the „completed“ looks of it (Mastery Bridge & Vibrato, brushed steel plates, black anodized pickguard) so no way it gets off again - but what could this be? It‘s not much... like a halftone after 20min of playing - but it‘s annoying enough! And yes I bend my strings extensively everytime I change them!

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Re: Tuning Stability Attainable without Lubrication?

Post by alexpigment » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:13 am

ek11sx wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:27 am

Ok so I only had a few seconds but I grabbed the guitar, made sure it was tuned, and pushed down behind the nut on each string a decent amount. They all returned to pitch as far as I could tell.
OK we can rule out the nut (and the tuners) then. I would try and see if you can see the saddles or the bridge shifting. That's not really prescriptive, but at least you'll know where the problem is happening.

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Re: Tuning Stability Attainable without Lubrication?

Post by ek11sx » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:25 am

alexpigment wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:13 am
ek11sx wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:27 am

Ok so I only had a few seconds but I grabbed the guitar, made sure it was tuned, and pushed down behind the nut on each string a decent amount. They all returned to pitch as far as I could tell.
OK we can rule out the nut (and the tuners) then. I would try and see if you can see the saddles or the bridge shifting. That's not really prescriptive, but at least you'll know where the problem is happening.
If the saddles are shifting it’s not noticeable to the naked eye. No visible movement

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Re: Tuning Stability Attainable without Lubrication?

Post by ek11sx » Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:43 am

I have tried all three stewmac shims now. The .25 and.5 degree shims did not do a ton as far as raising the action so could lower the bridge but the 1 degree shim did just that. With the 1 degree shim I was able to lower the bridge very close to the body and in turn reduce the downward force on the saddles themselves.

Based on some light testing I would characterize this change as positive. The tuning after divebombing and pulling up to the deck on the bar is not horrible. I am seeing thing a few cents off but not like it was before. I will keep testing it out

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Re: Tuning Stability Attainable without Lubrication?

Post by ek11sx » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:46 am

With the neck more parallel to the body I have seen fair improvement in the tuning stability. I still find any upwards movement of the tremolo pulls the notes sharp, specifically the low e string. I have repeatedly polished the nut with 2000 grit sandpaper to try to get it as friction-less as possible but I have not had luck. Pushing down on the string behind the nut and the bridge does not move the tuning in that direction; it stays consistent. Even lifting the string off the saddle and dropping it back down does not bring it back in tune, only more movement of the trem or retuning.

I definitely think that reducing the downward force on the bridge has noticeably helped the tuning. I could not find the specific degree angle the new Am Pro (and the AOs for that matter) anywhere on the internet. Not sure if anyone else may have that information. I will keep playing around with the set up until my Staytrem bridge comes in the mail and then I will give that a shot and go from there.

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Re: Tuning Stability Attainable without Lubrication?

Post by timtam » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:05 am

Have you tried tightening the trem screw ? You noted earlier that the screw was barely into its block. I'm not saying it will definitely help, but it will compress the trem spring more, so that there will be more spring resistance to trem arm movement, but there should also be more spring force to bring it back to where it started.

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Re: Tuning Stability Attainable without Lubrication?

Post by ek11sx » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:10 am

timtam wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:05 am
Have you tried tightening the trem screw ? You noted earlier that the screw was barely into its block. I'm not saying it will definitely help, but it will compress the trem spring more, so that there will be more spring resistance to trem arm movement, but there should also be more spring force to bring it back to where it started.
Since getting it back from the tech I have only loosened the trem by about two full rotations. Originally, there was not as much upward movement on the trem. I could only pull up a relatively small distance before the plate hit the top of the trem.

I will try tightening the tremolo screw later tonight and report back.

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Re: Tuning Stability Attainable without Lubrication?

Post by ek11sx » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:57 pm

ek11sx wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:46 am

I definitely think that reducing the downward force on the bridge has noticeably helped the tuning. I could not find the specific degree angle the new Am Pro (and the AOs for that matter) anywhere on the internet. Not sure if anyone else may have that information. I will keep playing around with the set up until my Staytrem bridge comes in the mail and then I will give that a shot and go from there.
Quoting myself to provide information: per Fender, the American pro Jazzmasters and Jaguars come with 1.4 degree angles built into the neck pockets

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Re: Tuning Stability Attainable without Lubrication?

Post by ek11sx » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:23 pm

I think I have finally come to a conclusion with this matter. Thank you to all who helped me on the way. After a few days of testing I’m really happy with the tuning stability of my Am Pro jazzmaster. I ended up with a completely different set up than what I initially thought I would use

Final set up:
Am Pro Jazzmaster
Schaller Locking tuners
Mastery Tremolo
Mastery thimbles
Staytrem bridge (9.5, floating)
11 gauge GHS string
.25 degree stewmac shim (not reversed as previously tested)

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