Re: jazzmaster japan or usa?

[Surfoverb]

Ive recently read that the Japan exports to the US are of lesser quality than the Japan exports to Europe, not sure about all that though.

I would find it highly dubious that there is any difference between any CIJ Jazzmaster sold anywhere in the world, provided it's actually the same model Jazzmaster (ie. not an "HH" or whatever).  They're not going to keep two production lines going, one for the good guitars and one for the crap guitars.  What sense would that make?

Yeah, that doesnt really make any sense...Nevermind, I found where I read that (another forum) and it sounds stupid when I say it out loud.

[JazzBlaster]

Another difference I thought of is brass shielding the MIJ/CIJ don't have them.

[berlinbetty]

but I like the standard CIJ units, especially the neck and mid positions...the bridge alone isn't that great.

  That's interesting, I feel precisely the same way about MY CIJ...   It just seems like it doesn't have as much personality as the others.

[Daysleeper]

I bought a Japanese Jazzmaster & Jaguar around 95. I thought they were great guitars, but after a bout 5 years I got tired of them and sold them both for a Les Paul. I had a bunch of guitars after them and stuck with a Les Paul and an Ibanez Talman for many years. I thought it couldn't get better than that.

...then I tried a AVRI Jazzmaster in 2004 and instantly sold all my guitars for one. It was the best decision I ever made. Best guitar I have ever played, way different from the Japanese models i formerly knew. CIJ Models had electronic issues, and didn't seem very high quality to me. The AVRI felt like a dream.

A few years later I bought a 2003 CIJ and it was a dramatic difference from the 90's Imports. Beautiful guitar...the best JM import I have ever played....but still no match for my AVRI. As much as I loved it I just sold it for an AVRI Jaguar. Again, I feel a much better quality Instrument.

In Short: I love the AVRI Series. They Feel better, look better, are put together better, Sound better. Of course that's all my opinion. I say save up a few hundred extra and get an AVRI and a Hardshell Case...IT IS WORTH IT.

[Pumpkin]

I feel ya cant beat CIJ Fenders!

A CIJ jazz will need new pups and pots.

A AV could need new pups,its all Dependant on what you play.

So if you exclude the pups and just look at the guitars you need to decide if you want nitro or poly,i prefer poly cause it feels so smooth and its just a really nice finish,flawless actually as are AV nitro finishes.

To be 100%  honest there is not enough differences in these two guitars to warrant the price difference but people say "oh,suuuuuuuuuure a japanese guitar is as good as an american" *sarcasm* my response is "have you ever known the japanese to fall short of perfection in anything they do?" cause i haven't! this is clearly a case of egotistical American superiority at work.

If you give me a choice between a modified CIJ with the pups and pots of my choice or a AV with the same choices i would take the cij every time.
They are great guitars and ya cant really fault either of them(excl.elec.) but far to much emphasis is placed on AV's superiority than is deserved because imho i feel the Japanese guitars are made to a higher standard than there AV counterparts.

This isnt as biased a statement as it seems because Fender US went to japan some years ago and was blown away by the standard and even chucked a shitty tantrum over it for a while.(google for complete story)because they were making US fender look cheap.

Fact:US fender has a reputation that people are loyal too and it has the street cred factor which cij doesnt.
Japan Fender seem to produce the same quality over and over again.

Conclusion,Fender japan is my first choice,not due to cost alone but due to quality as well!

If you can, go examine and play some av and cij guitars for comparison cause the last thing you want is someone elses guitar and biases flowing into your own playing.

Goodluck dude!

[JazzBlaster]

the only thing original on my 94 MIJ is the neck and body

[Pumpkin]

Ive recently read that the Japan exports to the US are of lesser quality than the Japan exports to Europe, not sure about all that though.

I would find it highly dubious that there is any difference between any CIJ Jazzmaster sold anywhere in the world, provided it's actually the same model Jazzmaster (ie. not an "HH" or whatever).  They're not going to keep two production lines going, one for the good guitars and one for the crap guitars.  What sense would that make?

Yeah, that doesnt really make any sense...Nevermind, I found where I read that (another forum) and it sounds stupid when I say it out loud.

Yea is shit man,theres only one Fender japan and they send guitars all over the world.

I often hear the "for the japanese market only" are better..............its the same guitar for christs sake,this is M@J@ factor at work here folks,nothing more!

[Pumpkin]

the only thing original on my 94 MIJ is the neck and body

Same on my jaguar man,oh and the tuners cause they're the same av or cij and they're good tuners.,but...........if it were av id still change the pups,caps,PG so it almost the same amount of upgrades.

Just no trem wire,and pots.

[jeremy]

question fot anyone thats had the chance to compare CIJ/MIJ/AVRI - have you found that there is any noticeable difference in the neck profiles? I think the nut width and the radius should be identical but it is one a bit thicker than the other at all?

[starfish]

I originally started with a 1993 MIJ in OW.  I sold it several years ago and now own a 1964 in OW.  The difference between the MIJ and a vintage JM is astounding,  The MIJ felt and sounded like a plastic toy in comparison.  I can't comment on CIJ since I have never played or owned one.  Perhaps the quality got better.  I have played 2 AVRI owned by friends.  Much closer in feel to a vintage JM, but the electronics are still bright compared to a real vintage axe.  But at this point we're splitting hairs for the cost vs. value factor.  I got both my vintage JM's long before the prices rose to absurdity.

So, my vote is AVRI.  I own a CS Bass VI in OW that is a great feeling and sounding instrument.  MIA certainly sticks out in my mind as being better quality.

Pics.  First is the 1993 MIJ (long gone) and then the 1964 OW with matching head (sticking around for life):

[spaceghost]

you're always going to have people who prefer one to another. for some, it's hard to justify spending extra money for AVRI.
for me, it was just that i wanted something as close to Era Correct as it could get, and Fender USA is the only one that can do that for you.
I didn't have 4-5k for a vintage Jaguar, so for me AVRI was the next best thing.

We also discussed some of the differences in this thread, such as clay dots, slab boards and brass sheilding.

index.php?topic=3966.15

[spacecadet]

I originally started with a 1993 MIJ in OW.  I sold it several years ago and now own a 1964 in OW.  The difference between the MIJ and a vintage JM is astounding,  The MIJ felt and sounded like a plastic toy in comparison.  I can't comment on CIJ since I have never played or owned one.  Perhaps the quality got better.

What I've read suggests that it is at least a bit better now (including one of the replies above), though your thoughts on MIJ models seem a lot harsher than most I've read.  So I don't know what you'd think of CIJ's either.

But they are apparently made by two totally different manufacturers, according to the Wikipedia article on Fender Japan.  I'm not sure I believe Wikipedia on this one particular point, but the article also says that's responsible for the change to "CIJ" vs. "MIJ" - that it was a contractual thing that they had to make that switch if there was a "substantial change" in manufacturing.

I do know that things like the tort pickguards became a lot more historically accurate after the change to CIJ - that's easy to spot.  I'm not sure what else changed.  (Though I actually like those earlier red tort pickguards like you had.)

I really think that at least if you compare CIJ vs. AVRI (and like I said before, I've played both), what it comes down to is just whether you are going for historical accuracy or whether you are just looking for a playable Jazzmaster, because there's nothing different about the CIJ that makes it any less playable or enjoyable, it's mostly stuff you don't even see or feel.  And I confess that I don't really understand the mentality of buying a new guitar because it's historically accurate.  In what other field do people do that?  Nobody's going to buy a 2008 Camaro because it's historically accurate to a 1967 Camaro.  If they want a 1967 Camaro, they'll hit the classifieds and find a 1967 Camaro.  (And I'm not saying I don't understand the mentality of buying vintage - I do.  What I don't understand is the mentality of buying new and *pretending* it's vintage.)

So for me the choice is vintage vs. new, that's it.  CIJ and AVRI are in the same category.  And that's where the like $800 price difference between CIJ and AVRI comes into play.

It seems like most of us in the CIJ camp look at things that same way.  We all understand the appeal of vintage, but new guitars are just new guitars, with their own personalities and agendas independent from vintage, so what's the difference?  $800, that's what.

All that said, if the price were equal, I would go with the AVRI just because of the stock pickups and the fact that you can walk into any guitar store in the US and buy parts for it (or at least order them).  Though I might also eventually still buy a CIJ just because I love their color combos.

[spaceghost]

Nobody's going to buy a 2008 Camaro because it's historically accurate to a 1967 Camaro.  If they want a 1967 Camaro, they'll hit the classifieds and find a 1967 Camaro.  (And I'm not saying I don't understand the mentality of buying vintage - I do.  What I don't understand is the mentality of buying new and *pretending* it's vintage.)

while i won't make anymore claims that AVRI is better than Japanese, just because, you will see the difference ten to twenty years from now. I play an AVRI Jaguar and a MIJ Jazzmaster and the Jaguar is definately more stable, and will continue to be so. Alas the Jag is brand new, but the Jazz is years old and the switches are going to piss and the trem is very weak. I just hope my Jag stays quality.

As for the automotive thing, if they made a 2008 1967 Reissue Camaro that was EXACTLY like the original Camaro, but costs 10,000 buck less you'd bet your ass people would buy it. We don't *pretend* it's vintage. I just enjoy the quality and know it's reliable with little effort.

[spacecadet]

As for the automotive thing, if they made a 2008 1967 Reissue Camaro that was EXACTLY like the original Camaro, but costs 10,000 buck less you'd bet your ass people would buy it.

I'm not doubting that some people would.  The question is why, when in your hypothetical example both a) real 1967 Camaros, and b) modern Camaros with modern amenities exist.

I guess a better corollary in the guitar world would be the strat.  There are tons of strats on the market, including quite a few reissues but also a lot of modern models with different features, tones and color schemes than existed in the vintage era.  I would never buy a reissue, and I don't understand the point of them.  There are so many of the real thing out there if you want a classic sound, and on the flipside so many interesting things being done with modern strats, that I just don't see why you'd bother with a reissue unless the goal was simply to save money vs. buying vintage, with vintage just being a personal preference.

It's not subjective criteria that I have an issue with.  What I don't get is trying to justify subjective criteria using objective criteria that may or may not actually exist.

(Edited to remove some stuff that sounded a little unnecessarily harsh.)

[spaceghost]

As for the automotive thing, if they made a 2008 1967 Reissue Camaro that was EXACTLY like the original Camaro, but costs 10,000 buck less you'd bet your ass people would buy it.

I'm not doubting that some people would.  The question is why, when in your hypothetical example both a) real 1967 Camaros, and b) modern Camaros with modern amenities exist.

I guess a better corollary in the guitar world would be the strat.  There are tons of strats on the market, including quite a few reissues but also a lot of modern models with different features and color schemes than existed in the vintage era.  I would never buy a reissue, and I don't understand the point of them.  There are so many of the real thing out there, and on the flipside so many interesting things being done with modern strats, that I just don't see why you'd bother with a reissue unless the goal was simply to save money vs. buying vintage, with vintage just being a personal preference.  But if it is, then just say that.

(Edited to remove some stuff that sounded a little unnecessarily harsh.)

i don't know where you're finding Japanese Jag's for $3-400, but the price difference is not 800.
i payed 1200, which is higher than most AVRI's, and it was a special order straight from Corona.
As for the assumptions you made, there are valid reasons why i chose not to order a japanese guitar.

1. didn't want to deal with Fender Japan
2. didn't want to spend the time upgrading (yes there are more than pups, brass shields, cloth wiring, slab boards, branded switches, stronger trem, wider neck, mute, hardshell case)
3. knew a Fender Rep
4. wanted nitro finish
5. wanted a warranty
6. wanted resale (yea right) value

also, what makes the Japanese not reissues? the custom colors? what did they change from the original Jag?

The era correct thing is just kind of a perk. i never scolded people for buying CIJ/MIJ, and i don't think they deserve the 'your guitar isn't as good as mine' deal. and i don't think people who buy AVRI deserve the 'you wasted your money' deal. i'm glad i bought what i bought and i love it. and if you played it you'd love it too.