Johnny Marr Sig Jaguar

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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benecol
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Re: Johnny Marr Sig Jaguar

Post by benecol » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:58 pm

Your "haha" hurt my feelings and I just saw red.

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Marrcissist
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Re: Johnny Marr Sig Jaguar

Post by Marrcissist » Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:02 pm

:fp: Stop argung, you both miss understood each other, and neither of you let it go.

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CRWolf
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Re: Johnny Marr Sig Jaguar

Post by CRWolf » Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:12 am

Okay, I think I've been through this entire thread and I've done several searches with no luck. So, does anyone have a pic of a mint guard on Metallic KO? I love the color and after several years of back and forth I'm real close to throwing down for one, but I am not into the white guard at all and, while I like some of the Spitfire stuff I see, I'm not keen on paying for one. Appreciate it.

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Mechanical Birds
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Re: Johnny Marr Sig Jaguar

Post by Mechanical Birds » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:58 am

benecol wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:58 pm
Your "haha" hurt my feelings and I just saw red.
Sorry bro, truce?

You hadn’t mentioned that it came without the arm, which I gotta say might be my biggest annoyance with used guitars and I don’t understand how so many people buy trem equipped guitars and seemingly just chuck the arm somewhere and lose it.

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wmachine
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Re: Johnny Marr Sig Jaguar

Post by wmachine » Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:44 pm

wooderson wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:06 pm
wmachine wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:57 pm
wooderson wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:47 am
They're more creamy than stark white.

"Hit or miss" sounds like the usual guitar forum/buyer mythology about needing to play dozens to find the magical one. Assuming there's nothing actively wrong with it that needs to be fixed (twisted neck or bad wiring or something) and it's set up, all Marrs are going to be all but identical in sound.
I think you went from one unrealistic extreme to another. Calling the variations "hit or miss, playing dozens, the magical ones" are one extreme, but calling variations a "myth, will be identical" is not accurate either. Too much experience from too many people to deny a determinable difference. I cannot offer any opinion on Marrs and Jags for relative consistency, but there are makes and models known for having a wide berth of consistency. Gibson ES-335s for example. Sometimes it is matter of "just different", neither better or worse, but often it is better than worse.
Yes, generally speaking, there is such a thing as a "good one". There always has been, until the internet came along.
Lots of people believing conventional wisdom doesn't make it true, particularly in a world that's just a half-step from the insanity of audiophilia. It used to be that Fender's poly finishes 'killed tone' then it was just that thick finishes kill tone, poly is cool and now all that wisdom is pretty much ignored by everyone.

'All Marrs have the same tonewoods (a questionable enough issue in itself) - alder, maple and rosewood, with all the same wiring and hardware. The one point of departure might be variations in pickups, but I will wager any deviation there is minimal - a company like Fender has tolerances suppliers like Bareknuckle must meet. In a blind test, taking a dozen Marrs off the wall, I doubt anyone on Earth would be able to tell them apart by ear.

Re: consistency - as I said, this uniformity is dependent on proper functioning and a good setup. Gibson has a lot of problems with that - poorly cut nuts, lousy fret work.
True, but I should have said "Too much experience from too many people who are very expeienced. And I did discount all of the noise on the internet, as you say it is. And you not believing it does not make it false, especially in light of the real world experience of others, not just a belief in conventional wisdom or any other belief.
"I am the kind of guy that only buys 100 watt heads just to play at home. I feel like if an amp can't kill a heard of cattle 100 yards away what is the point of owning it."

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Re: Johnny Marr Sig Jaguar

Post by wooderson » Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:33 pm

wmachine wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:44 pm
True, but I should have said "Too much experience from too many people who are very expeienced. And I did discount all of the noise on the internet, as you say it is. And you not believing it does not make it false, especially in light of the real world experience of others, not just a belief in conventional wisdom or any other belief.
'Very experienced' people believe all kinds of nonsense - I'd point to the stats revolutions across sports and the focus on scientific testing on the things 'everyone knows' about cooking (from people like Harold McGee, J Kenji Lopez-Alt). Both have systematically undermined any number of things very experienced professionals 'knew' about their worlds.

You're being quite vague here - what does "real world experience" mean? Have you found the gem of a batch of identical guitars? What qualities did that gem have that the others didn't?

The test I'd put for something that hasn't been confirmed through objective testing is making a logical case for why it could be so. I've yet to see that case for why one guitar would be superior given a selection that are identical in specs. With an electric guitar, pickups are the major wild card (comparing vintage guitars, there can be a lot of variance between pickups) that could make one better or worse (though really, just different - a hotter pickup is not better or worse, of course).

I don't see how that would be a particular issue in a modern, mass-produced guitar for reasons of QC I referred to earlier (if Bare Knuckle couldn't produce all Marrs in a very small range, Fender wouldn't accept them).

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benecol
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Re: Johnny Marr Sig Jaguar

Post by benecol » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:34 pm

Mechanical Birds wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:58 am
benecol wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:58 pm
Your "haha" hurt my feelings and I just saw red.
Sorry bro, truce?

You hadn’t mentioned that it came without the arm, which I gotta say might be my biggest annoyance with used guitars and I don’t understand how so many people buy trem equipped guitars and seemingly just chuck the arm somewhere and lose it.
No harm, no foul; I was just being silly about seeing red! I too cannot understand why someone would buy a guitar with such a good trem, then never use the arm. Fools.

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wmachine
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Re: Johnny Marr Sig Jaguar

Post by wmachine » Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:49 pm

wooderson wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:33 pm
wmachine wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:44 pm
True, but I should have said "Too much experience from too many people who are very expeienced. And I did discount all of the noise on the internet, as you say it is. And you not believing it does not make it false, especially in light of the real world experience of others, not just a belief in conventional wisdom or any other belief.
'Very experienced' people believe all kinds of nonsense - I'd point to the stats revolutions across sports and the focus on scientific testing on the things 'everyone knows' about cooking (from people like Harold McGee, J Kenji Lopez-Alt). Both have systematically undermined any number of things very experienced professionals 'knew' about their worlds.

You're being quite vague here - what does "real world experience" mean? Have you found the gem of a batch of identical guitars? What qualities did that gem have that the others didn't?

The test I'd put for something that hasn't been confirmed through objective testing is making a logical case for why it could be so. I've yet to see that case for why one guitar would be superior given a selection that are identical in specs. With an electric guitar, pickups are the major wild card (comparing vintage guitars, there can be a lot of variance between pickups) that could make one better or worse (though really, just different - a hotter pickup is not better or worse, of course).

I don't see how that would be a particular issue in a modern, mass-produced guitar for reasons of QC I referred to earlier (if Bare Knuckle couldn't produce all Marrs in a very small range, Fender wouldn't accept them).
Sports? Cooking? You're really reaching here. Regardless, you're still trying to debunk something based on scientific theory that you've no more proven that what you're trying to disprove. Until you anyone else does, I'll go with the experiences of myself and others rather than some "scientific explanations". There is a huge difference scientific hypothesis and scientific proof, for good reason. I personally find it almost laughable anyone thinks that "we" have been disillusion all of these years.
"I am the kind of guy that only buys 100 watt heads just to play at home. I feel like if an amp can't kill a heard of cattle 100 yards away what is the point of owning it."

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Re: Johnny Marr Sig Jaguar

Post by wooderson » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:17 am

wmachine wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:49 pm
Sports? Cooking? You're really reaching here. Regardless, you're still trying to debunk something based on scientific theory that you've no more proven that what you're trying to disprove. Until you anyone else does, I'll go with the experiences of myself and others rather than some "scientific explanations". There is a huge difference scientific hypothesis and scientific proof, for good reason. I personally find it almost laughable anyone thinks that "we" have been disillusion all of these years.
Sports and cooking are fields where highly experienced, highly skilled people have been wrong for a very long time because they accepted the wisdom of their field and their mentors. It's not a reach, it's an example of the flaw in your arguments that very experienced people have experienced this themselves so we need to be credulous.

Thomas Keller and Gordon Ramsay are great chefs - Keller and Ramsay will also tell you to leave your steak on the counter for half an hour to 'come to room temperature.' This is complete and utter nonsense as advice - the steak won't and it wouldn't be a good thing if it did - but that doesn't change the fact that they are great and knowledgable chefs - it just means that something they heard learning to cook and have done for their whole lives has no basis in fact. There was never a reason to challenge the assumption.

Again, on what do you base your belief that some Marrs will be better than others - what does better even mean? Is it the wood? Is there 'good wood' and 'bad wood'? What's the difference in the two?

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Re: Johnny Marr Sig Jaguar

Post by CRWolf » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:07 am

Not sure if my post got missed amidst the argument or if no one has an answer, but I figured I'd ask one more time, just in case.

Does anyone have/know of a picture of the Metallic KO with a mint guard?

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Re: Johnny Marr Sig Jaguar

Post by akpasta » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:58 am

Got my Johnny Marr Jag last night and I'm totally pumped on it. Love the sound, love the play, it's great.

I do have a question.

Although the string spacing doesn't bother me too much, I think I can get used to the low E and high E being so close to the edge of the fretboard. What other bolt-on options are there?

I understand the Staytrem Bridge is one way, but how do you get those? There aren't any on Reverb anymore and the Staytrem site says they won't sell to the US anymore.

Also, I understand the JM Jag has thicker screws and bushings on the bridge posts, so can you really just drop in the staytrem bridge?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B37sRq ... sp=sharing

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Re: Johnny Marr Sig Jaguar

Post by wooderson » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:09 am

A Staytrem drops in, your other option for now is a Mastery (that should also be a drop in). You basically just have to be a hawk and snatch up a Staytrem you see for sale.

The Marr bridge is designed to not rock so it fills up the bridge thimble, the same is true of a Mastery or the non-rocking Staytrem.

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Re: Johnny Marr Sig Jaguar

Post by akpasta » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:13 am

Ah, so they all drop in the same? Great.

However I beg to differ with you on the design. My understanding is they are still designed to rock forward and backward with the tremolo. The original design flaw they are designed to solve is the one where the bridges sink after many hours of playing.

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Re: Johnny Marr Sig Jaguar

Post by timtam » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:44 pm

akpasta wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:58 am
Also, I understand the JM Jag has thicker screws and bushings on the bridge posts, so can you really just drop in the staytrem bridge?
I haven't seen actual comparative measurements, but AFAIK the Marr bridge is indeed just a US Mustang bridge with the addition of the nylon anti-sink bushings to the the bottom of the posts. This is a Marr ...
Image

In contrast, the anti-rocking version of the Staytrem has an extra nylon bushing at the top of each post, to restrict movement.

If strings too close to the edge is a big issue for you, your options are Staytrem if you can get one, Mastery, or .... a set of vintage-style saddles on which you choose and then file the right grooves for 52mm E-E spacing. That may of course seen like somewhat of a retrograde step for those who bought the Marr partly because it doesn't have a vintage-style bridge.

The latest LPB Marr has been reported to have fixed the E-E spacing to 52mm, but neither that or the original Marr bridge has been available aftermarket.

With the Staytrem no longer as readily available, people here have re-drilled the intonation screws holes on the other side of Mustang bridge base plates to get to 52mm. This also requires import Mustang saddles that have some space between them.

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Re: Johnny Marr Sig Jaguar

Post by jmsrsstr » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:06 am

Seems like everyone's figured out the new LPB Marr bridge is 52mm, bit just to clear things up once and for all, here's a photo of my new LPB Johnny Marr Jaguar bridge against a ruler. Can confirm it's 52mm.
Image

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