New family member

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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luau
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New family member

Post by luau » Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:20 am

I've been trying to weasel this out of a friend for some time.  An unexpectedly pregnant wife brought him around to my line of thinking.

I'm pretty sure this is a parts guitar, but I'm not sure how severe it is. I paid a sub parts-guitar-price for it. It's got a 120xxx plate. The decal is under finely checked lacquer. The back looks great and is pretty uniformly checked. The front isn't checked and looks like it may have gotten an additional clear coat along the way. I'd guess it had F-tuners. Some genius decided it needed Klusons instead.  ::)  They drilled through the head stock on the top screw of the low E tuner.  >:(

I haven't opened it up yet. More pics to come.

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Re: New family member

Post by Soiouz » Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:25 am

That looks awesome!!!

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Re: New family member

Post by StevenO » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:16 am

What a beauty.

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Re: New family member

Post by luau » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:43 am

Thanks guys. It's kind of a puzzler. Hopefully somebody more knowledgeable than I can weigh in and help me figure out just what I have.

I can't read the rhythm circuit pots. Soldering is sloppy all the way around. On the lead circuit, the volume pot is a 51st week of '65 CTS and the tone is a 45th week of '64 Stackpole. I can't read the stamp on the neck, it's in red ink (not part code - month - year - width, the other format) and marked 'J.Torres' on the bottom along with a circle in green ink. Gray bottom pickups without the 4 digit stamped code. The neck pickup has '2-28-66' in pencil. The shielding in the routes are plates on the bottom and not tubs.

I took more pictures, but they suck.

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Re: New family member

Post by dinosaur » Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:03 am

I don't know too much about this era, but I think most things seem fine for a 66,.  I think there was another post on here a while back about a 66 neck that had the red stamp, too.

I can't be of much help, but it looks great!

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Re: New family member

Post by luau » Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:15 am

Thanks dinosaur. Upon closer inspection in better light (my apt faces west) I can see that the front is checked too. It seems orange peely to me, but maybe it just needs a thorough cleaning. I also noticed that the pickguard has shrunk enough that the pick guard screw above the roller pots has caused the body to crack around the screw hole.
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Re: New family member

Post by fullerplast » Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:41 am

Way cool JM!

The all-black logo, green stamp, and TORRES stamp coupled with the red stamp would all indicate a later neck. These stamps are mostly (all together) a sign of early 70s. I'm not sure when they started with the names and such... but definitely later than the '66-'67 period your serial number would suggest.  I never learned how to read those red stamps, but there's an article (I think by Greg Gagliano) on the web somewhere that tells how.

Cloth wire disappeared in '68, and you have it.

The pencil dated pup is cool for '66 and wouldn't have the 4 digit stamp, that came later. An undated pickup is OK too. I would expect to see '66 pots on there, regardless if it's a  '66 or anywhere through '71.  I suppose '64-'65  pots could be possible, but I kind of doubt it. It all depends on what the body originally was I guess. I mean, whose to say which of all the dated parts are original?

Any sign of a body date?

Is there a logo on the case? If so, what kind (tail or not)?

I think it's a parts guitar, but nothing wrong with that. If you are inclined to eventually try to match everything up, I would say to go with the neck as the base. Everything else would be easy to change. Or if it plays well...  you could leave it alone.

I think you win either way!
Last edited by fullerplast on Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New family member

Post by Puke+Cry » Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:45 am

sexy

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Re: New family member

Post by fullerplast » Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:51 am

The pickup date is early '66, and coupled with the earlier pots (if legit) and serial number would seem to indicate a bound/dot neck originally. The solder looks untouched on the pots. The more I look, the more I think it could be a legit early '66 with a changed neck. I don't see any way the neck could be '66. The other one we saw with a red stamp had a transition logo and did not have the builders name or green inspection stamp.
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Re: New family member

Post by luau » Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:16 am

fullerplast wrote:The all-black logo, green stamp, and TORRES stamp coupled with the red stamp would all indicate a later neck. These stamps are mostly (all together) a sign of early 70s. I'm not sure when they started with the names and such... but definitely later than the '66-'67 period your serial number would suggest.  I never learned how to read those red stamps, but there's an article (I think by Greg Gagliano) on the web somewhere that tells how.
This was kind of my suspicion as well. I've got a '79 strat neck with a Torres stamp and I've seen some other necks from the mid/late 70s with that name on it as well. It feels like a 70s neck too. Sort of U in the lower registers and graduated to more C-like as we go up. There isn't really an ounce of wear on the back either, although there is some even fret wear. They have been leveled at least once. Add in the non-doweled F-tuner holes and the sloppy Kluson drilling and I think the deal is sealed, neck-wise. I can just barely make out the first two and the last digit of the red stamp. 04, and then 5 at the end, I think. Maybe that will be enough. I'll try to hunt down the key to the code.
fullerplast wrote:The pencil dated pup is cool for '66 and wouldn't have the 4 digit stamp, that came later. An undated pickup is OK too. I would expect to see '66 pots on there, regardless if it's a  '66 or anywhere through '71.  I suppose '64-'65  pots could be possible, but I kind of doubt it.

Good deal on the pickups. The tone pot has obviously been replaced and or messed with. There's one lug that used to be soldered to the case that isn't soldered to the case any longer. I've got it strung up and back together now, but when I have more time I'll look into the pots on the rhythm circuit.
fullerplast wrote:It all depends on what the body originally was I guess. I mean, whose to say which of all the dated parts are original? Any sign of a body date?
The best clue I have is the crack caused by the shrinking pickguard. If the crack occurred naturally, then there must have been a pickguard that would shrink on it to make the crack. There's nothing in the neck pocket or the trem pocket. I haven't taken the shielding out so something may be lurking under there.
fullerplast wrote:Is there a logo on the case? If so, what kind (tail or not)?
There is. The silver part is gone, but the black part underneath it is there. No tail.
fullerplast wrote:I think it's a parts guitar, but nothing wrong with that. If you are inclined to eventually try to match everything up, I would say to go with the neck as the base. Everything else would be easy to change. Or if it plays well...  you could leave it alone.
I'm not sure what I'll do with it. It plays pretty good and sounds great. If I can convince myself that it's a 66ish body, I'll probably try to track down a neck since I have period pickups, pickguard, and neck plate. I don't have much in it as is so plunking down for a neck wouldn't drive me into completely-unreasonable $ territory. If I can't ID the body any better, I'll probably just leave it alone.

Regarding your last post, man, I hope you're right!
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Re: New family member

Post by luau » Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:22 am

Now that I look at that picture of the tone pot above again, it was previously wired just like the volume pot currently is. It is an audio taper though so I don't know what to make of it.

edit: And a massive THANKS! for the input.
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Re: New family member

Post by fullerplast » Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:26 am

Funny the harness is still taped to the shield with what looks like original tape.

If you ever track down '66 pots and want to get rid of these, please keep me in mind! 

Oh, and the no-tail logo (if there was also no circled R or MADE IN USA either) would indicate '65 - '66....
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Re: New family member

Post by 1946dodge » Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:44 pm

I also noticed that the pickguard has shrunk enough that the pick guard screw above the roller pots has caused the body to crack around the screw hole.
Amazing! My 64 JM has the same problem in the same place. I thought it was a fluke but now you have shown me why this happened.
Thanks.
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Re: New family member

Post by luau » Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:10 am

I need some new foam for this thing so when that comes in I'll dig in again.

I don't think this case logo had the R or anything but 'Fender' on it. Doesn't look like there is room.
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If the pots come out, they've got your name on them fullerplast.

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