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Is it technically a Starcaster with that headstock?

The metric tom bridge really bugs me. The Modern Player and Squier Starcaster models both had Fender’s “adjust-o-matic” bridge. At such a price point, why cheap out on the hardware?

Shock - a forum of traditionalists dislikes non-traditional Fender model.

Comparing it to other Starcasters is missing the point. Like comparing a Jerry Garcia Alligator to a Stratocaster. Other than the body shape, it's a completely different instrument.

This forum is not the market. Not even close.

I don't think the price is completely unrealistic. Lots of assumptions here about factory, I suspect it is not the same factory that turns out the Squier Starcasters but happy to be corrected on that. (The serial number format is quite different).

The reviews (demos?) all comment it's a fun, playable, good sounding guitar with a wider range than just the Blink-182 discography.

I thought I'd want it but I don't. Not because of price or other major objections, just other things I'd buy before it based on my wants/needs.

IrishBread69 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 21, 2024 1:20 am

Shock - a forum of traditionalists dislikes non-traditional Fender model.

Not really, there's at least a few posts that are positive about it, I think it's cool but not for me is roughly what mine said so I don't think you can blanket statement it like that.

Technically if you mod the hell out of your Fender you make yourself a "non-traditional Fender model", and I've done that so I'm definitely in favour of it because I don't like vintage JM/Jaguar pickups particularly, unless you're playing very specific types of equally vintage music, plus the old style "knuckle" bridges which were made in the flatwound era are an absolute design failure with modern lighter roundwounds and although I appreciate Fender still make models with it on for vintage correctness, it's one of the first things to go...

IrishBread69 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 21, 2024 1:20 am

Comparing it to other Starcasters is missing the point. Like comparing a Jerry Garcia Alligator to a Stratocaster. Other than the body shape, it's a completely different instrument.

Well that’s my point. They could easily have called it something different like the Fender “TDL” etc. When he used to have an endorsement deal with Gibson they came out with a ES-333 TDL signature model. There already was an ES-333 that had just recently been released. His model didn’t look much like it and just added to the confusion. Other than that I’m cool with it. More instruments the merrier I say.

IrishBread69 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 21, 2024 1:20 am

I don't think the price is completely unrealistic. Lots of assumptions here about factory, I suspect it is not the same factory that turns out the Squier Starcasters but happy to be corrected on that. (The serial number format is quite different).

It would be fairly unlikely for Fender to contract out to a different factory in Indonesia given that they already have the tooling to make that specific model of guitar, though none of us has proof one way or another at this time. As for the serial number, the letters at the beginning usually indicate a few things: ISS is used on all of the current Squier Starcasters, and I believe this means Indonesia/Samick/Squier. The serial number formatting changes from time to time, but generally those three elements (country, factory, brand) are present. You would think they would change to ISF for the Delonge if they were being consistent, but they're instead using "ID" - and I would guess that just means Indonesia/Delonge, since it's a signature one-off model. My point being that I don't think the serial number deviates in such a way that implies a different factory, and perhaps they're even intentionally obfuscating the fact that it's made in the same factory due to the price gap.

I love MII Squiers. I tend to go for them on purpose because they often have tuners that are easy to upgrade and such. I also really wanted this guitar. I just can't rationalize the price jump from my $200 Squier Starcasters to $1200 for the TDL. I know it has a nicer pickup and a roasted neck. It also has the Fender logo, but I just don't know that it has $1000 more into it to get me excited to get it vs five Squier ones.

alexpigment wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 21, 2024 7:09 pm

IrishBread69 wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 21, 2024 1:20 am

I don't think the price is completely unrealistic. Lots of assumptions here about factory, I suspect it is not the same factory that turns out the Squier Starcasters but happy to be corrected on that. (The serial number format is quite different).

It would be fairly unlikely for Fender to contract out to a different factory in Indonesia given that they already have the tooling to make that specific model of guitar, though none of us has proof one way or another at this time. As for the serial number, the letters at the beginning usually indicate a few things: ISS is used on all of the current Squier Starcasters, and I believe this means Indonesia/Samick/Squier. The serial number formatting changes from time to time, but generally those three elements (country, factory, brand) are present. You would think they would change to ISF for the Delonge if they were being consistent, but they're instead using "ID" - and I would guess that just means Indonesia/Delonge, since it's a signature one-off model. My point being that I don't think the serial number deviates in such a way that implies a different factory, and perhaps they're even intentionally obfuscating the fact that it's made in the same factory due to the price gap.

Thanks man, can't disagree with any of that. It would be interesting to clarify one way or the other. The upcharge for the 'upgraded' parts alone probably gets you fairly close to the list price anyway so this would make sense.

IrishBread69 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 23, 2024 11:12 am

Thanks man, can't disagree with any of that. It would be interesting to clarify one way or the other. The upcharge for the 'upgraded' parts alone probably gets you fairly close to the list price anyway so this would make sense.

There are a lot of things that go into the price. It's a name brand pickup rather than an in-house pickup, so they have to pay Seymour Duncan some agreed upon price for a *relatively limited quantity* as opposed to a huge volume deal. That is no doubt considerably more than they would pay if they were making them pickups themselves. Then there's the neck, which is both roasted and has rosewood on it, so those two items will cost more. Then there's the custom neck plate, which I would guess they make somewhere in Mexico or the US (i.e. it's the same plate as his signature strat) and have to ship them over. Same is true with the tuners; they're made by Fender so probably shipped from [some country] to Indonesia and will cost more than what is used on the Squiers. Fender probably takes a higher cut on its own guitars than they do on the Squiers, so there's an added cost there. Lastly, Tom's probably not doing this for free, so he's surely getting a cut.

Now, if you think this adds up to $1200, or the manufacturing cost equivalent to their other $1200 guitars, I think that's a bit of a stretch. On the other hand, they probably are wanting for the price to reflect the prestige of the model - i.e. they want this to be a major artist's signature line rather than an artist's budget line - so that currently means $1K+. I honestly don't have any problems with the pricing of this model. I just think that the guitar is visually unbalanced. Then again, I'm not the target market anyway; I was listening to Smashing Pumpkins, Tool, Deftones, etc while Blink was having their biggest hits. That said, I *did* own one of the original Tom DeLonge strats in light blue back in the mid 2000s because I wanted a 70s-style headstock and a hardtail bridge.

alexpigment wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 23, 2024 2:45 pm

IrishBread69 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 23, 2024 11:12 am

Thanks man, can't disagree with any of that. It would be interesting to clarify one way or the other. The upcharge for the 'upgraded' parts alone probably gets you fairly close to the list price anyway so this would make sense.

Now, if you think this adds up to $1200, or the manufacturing cost equivalent to their other $1200 guitars, I think that's a bit of a stretch. On the other hand, they probably are wanting for the price to reflect the prestige of the model - i.e. they want this to be a major artist's signature line rather than an artist's budget line - so that currently means $1K+.

One thing folks here don't seem to be aware of is the price is completely in line with the Fender Jim Adkins JA-90 Telecaster which currently streets at $1100. Both are artist semi-hollows with Seymour Duncan pickups, and the Jim Adkins has been produced in Indonesia since it's release in 2009.

vistavision wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:34 pm

alexpigment wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 23, 2024 2:45 pm

IrishBread69 wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 23, 2024 11:12 am

Thanks man, can't disagree with any of that. It would be interesting to clarify one way or the other. The upcharge for the 'upgraded' parts alone probably gets you fairly close to the list price anyway so this would make sense.

Now, if you think this adds up to $1200, or the manufacturing cost equivalent to their other $1200 guitars, I think that's a bit of a stretch. On the other hand, they probably are wanting for the price to reflect the prestige of the model - i.e. they want this to be a major artist's signature line rather than an artist's budget line - so that currently means $1K+.

One thing folks here don't seem to be aware of is the price is completely in line with the Fender Jim Adkins JA-90 Telecaster which currently streets at $1100. Both are artist semi-hollows with Seymour Duncan pickups, and the Jim Adkins has been produced in Indonesia since it's release in 2009.

The Jim Adkins is 30% cheaper according to Fender’s website (£1149 to £909).

sal paradise wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 23, 2024 10:00 pm

vistavision wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:34 pm

alexpigment wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 23, 2024 2:45 pm

Now, if you think this adds up to $1200, or the manufacturing cost equivalent to their other $1200 guitars, I think that's a bit of a stretch. On the other hand, they probably are wanting for the price to reflect the prestige of the model - i.e. they want this to be a major artist's signature line rather than an artist's budget line - so that currently means $1K+.

One thing folks here don't seem to be aware of is the price is completely in line with the Fender Jim Adkins JA-90 Telecaster which currently streets at $1100. Both are artist semi-hollows with Seymour Duncan pickups, and the Jim Adkins has been produced in Indonesia since it's release in 2009.

The Jim Adkins is 30% cheaper according to Fender’s website (£1149 to £909).

The math is actually 21% cheaper not 30%. Fender's USA site has the DeLonge at $1199 and Jim Adkins at $1099 so the Adkins is 8.5% lower here.

vistavision wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 23, 2024 10:32 pm

sal paradise wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 23, 2024 10:00 pm

vistavision wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:34 pm

One thing folks here don't seem to be aware of is the price is completely in line with the Fender Jim Adkins JA-90 Telecaster which currently streets at $1100. Both are artist semi-hollows with Seymour Duncan pickups, and the Jim Adkins has been produced in Indonesia since it's release in 2009.

The Jim Adkins is 30% cheaper according to Fender’s website (£1149 to £909).

The math is actually 21% cheaper not 30%. Fender's USA site has the DeLonge at $1199 and Jim Adkins at $1099 so the Adkins is 8.5% lower here.

Oops, yes 20 not 30.

I watched an interesting video of Lee Anderton talking to the Guitar Geek about guitar starter packs. Anderton's wouldn't sell the £100 ones you see on Amazon as felt the quality wasn't there and it could put young players off. He said they make their real money from the next guitar(s) starters buy, not the first one. So need them to get hooked and keep playing.

So they went to the factories those cheap ones came from and asked what an extra £5 in parts/labour would get them. Turns out a lot. Better fretwork, tuners, switches etc. Basically the guitar is almost twice as good.

The point, is he then said how that extra £5 means they need to charge an extra £20 due to the various ways raw costs (duty, VAT, middle men, profit margins etc) get multiplied before they’re sold. But they felt while they might lose some sales to Amazon, they'll come out ahead in the long run.

So if a roasted maple/rosewood neck and branded pickups cost say an extra £150, and then add in Delong's cut, there's your price difference with the Squier. It isn't just about charging extra for a different decal. I'd say it's more that they need the different decal for people to be willing to pay the extra cost. Just look at the flack Epiphone is getting for their new range.