anyone have any ideas? tuning issue mystery

[niksureal]

i recently got an eastwood sidejack deluxe (jaguar vibrato). it wouldnt stay in tune and had some cheap/ugly hardware. replaced the tuners (kluson style), nut (bone) and vibrato (still an import, but a definite upgrade and one ive used many times with only success).
still wont stay in tune.

the nut slots are all filed a couple sizes too big to avoid pinching, it has a roller bridge, nothing in the vibrato cavity is touching or rubbing. the vibrato cavity is actually pretty big. just for sanity's sake, i made the cavity corners 90 degree a la fender, i ground the pivot plate edge into a satisfying point. the spring tension is adjusted to how i usually have my jag vibratos adjusted (the tension screw is roughly flush with the bottom edge of the spring retainer). truss rod is adjusted to my particular liking (bit of relief).

i have a squier jag with stock hardware that is one of the most stable guitars ive ever played. this thing is massively upgraded with no issues i can find and wont stay in tune to save its life.
mind you, the tuning issue is pretty much identical to how it was before the upgrades even though the only original parts now are the body/neck. i dont know how the body/neck could make it go out of tune anyway.

oh yeah, this issue is; it will not return to "zero". if you push down, it stays flat (very flat), if you pull up, it stays sharp (very sharp).

i am stumped. anyone have any other ideas?

EDIT: SHIT! accidentally posted this in the wrong section. sorry.

[Danley]

How do you know the vibrato is good? Imports are variable; sounds like your Squier is good, so you could try swapping the vibratos for a moment to discount it - that’s where my money is.

[niksureal]

How do you know the vibrato is good? Imports are variable; sounds like your Squier is good, so you could try swapping the vibratos for a moment to discount it - that’s where my money is.

good point. i could definitely try popping one on that i know works well.
i mean after dissecting it, there was no part that looked off. the mechanics are quite simple, but im beginning to doubt myself.
ill have to wait til next time i feel like taking it apart again. i had it apart about 7 times last night and went through 3 packs of strings.

[Danley]

For reference - in the last four years or so I’ve gone through about three import vibratos and three MIJs - NONE of them stayed in perfect tune without me filing the pivot points somewhat, and two (a Squier and an MIJ) were severely dysfunctional out of the box. The AVRIs/Mexican Classic ones seem fine on the other hand, I would only buy those.

[alexpigment]

I can't say I've had any tuning issues with the cheap trems on the MIC JMs I've had, but they certainly didn't feel great and were replaced immediately I've tried several different models and I concur with Danley about AVRI and MIM ones being good. The MIM have a tendency to make a popping sound when doing bigger dives, but it doesn't seem to affect tuning stability. The AVRI ones have the smoothest action, but the bar seems to get loose over a short amount of time and requires some tricks to get tight again. Personally, my favorite is the combo of the AVRI trem with the MIM collet/arm.

ill have to wait til next time i feel like taking it apart again. i had it apart about 7 times last night and went through 3 packs of strings.

A bit off topic, but this is one of the reasons why I always recommend the Fender vintage style tuners to people. If you work on your guitars with any regularity, you're going to go through a ton of strings if you use any other tuners. I'm not saying it's an option on the Eastwood, just pointing out that I've saved *hundreds* of dollars due to the vintage Fender tuners.

[niksureal]

For reference - in the last four years or so I’ve gone through about three import vibratos and three MIJs - NONE of them stayed in perfect tune without me filing the pivot points somewhat, and two (a Squier and an MIJ) were severely dysfunctional out of the box. The AVRIs/Mexican Classic ones seem fine on the other hand, I would only buy those.

pivot has been ground to an ideal point. will try a different, proven, vibrato next time i take it apart. i definitely agree some are better, for sure. just never personally have ever gotten one that was a dud. now two in a row? haha.

A bit off topic, but this is one of the reasons why I always recommend the Fender vintage style tuners to people. If you work on your guitars with any regularity, you're going to go through a ton of strings if you use any other tuners. I'm not saying it's an option on the Eastwood, just pointing out that I've saved *hundreds* of dollars due to the vintage Fender tuners.

yep, it has kluson style tuners. same as "fender vintage style". im not changing strings every time i loosen them or take the guitar apart, that would be silly and wasteful. i change them because when they get loosened and tightened over and over, they start to break.

[alexpigment]

yep, it has kluson style tuners. same as "fender vintage style". im not changing strings every time i loosen them or take the guitar apart, that would be silly and wasteful. i change them because when they get loosened and tightened over and over, they start to break.

Right, but the strings don’t go down into the tuning posts on the Eastman, right? That’s the part that saves money, since you don’t keep introducing new kinks in the string. You can pretty much take them on/off ad nauseum without replacing them. And it takes less than a minute to put them all back on. Anyway, it was a tangent, so I’ll let you get back to the matter at hand.

[niksureal]

yep, it has kluson style tuners. same as "fender vintage style". im not changing strings every time i loosen them or take the guitar apart, that would be silly and wasteful. i change them because when they get loosened and tightened over and over, they start to break.

Right, but the strings don’t go down into the tuning posts on the Eastman, right? That’s the part that saves money, since you don’t keep introducing new kinks in the string. You can pretty much take them on/off ad nauseum without replacing them. And it takes less than a minute to put them all back on. Anyway, it was a tangent, so I’ll let you get back to the matter at hand.

i understand what you are saying. the tuners were replaced, as stated in the original post. kluson style tuners are the same as what you are describing. there is a bit of string that goes straight down into the post. when the strings are tightened and loosened repeatedly (repeatedly), they break. at the nut end sometimes and the tailpiece end at other times. they arent breaking at/on/because of the tuner specifically. the string is just shot. metal like that can not stand up that type of repeated abuse. same as if you bent a wire back and forth a few times, it breaks. i appreciate what you were saying, thats just not the issue, nor is it why i went through a few packs of strings. i just took my guitar apart that many times hahaha.

anyway... ill just try replacing the vibrato with one that has been proven next time i feel like taking the guitar apart. there is no real urgency in my issue. just frustrated. such frustration.

[alexpigment]

i understand what you are saying. the tuners were replaced, as stated in the original post. kluson style tuners are the same as what you are describing. there is a bit of string that goes straight down into the post. when the strings are tightened and loosened repeatedly (repeatedly), they break. at the nut end sometimes and the tailpiece end at other times. they arent breaking at/on/because of the tuner specifically. the string is just shot. metal like that can not stand up that type of repeated abuse. same as if you bent a wire back and forth a few times, it breaks. i appreciate what you were saying, thats just not the issue, nor is it why i went through a few packs of strings. i just took my guitar apart that many times hahaha.

Ah gotcha. I didn't know Kluson made a 3x3 Safe-T-Post design - I thought all Kluson 3x3's were vintage Gibson style. Nice to know!

[niksureal]

Ah gotcha. I didn't know Kluson made a 3x3 Safe-T-Post design - I thought all Kluson 3x3's were vintage Gibson style. Nice to know!

im honestly not sure if they do. i know they must have. my mosrite combo has 3x3 kluson deluxe safety tuners. maybe i forgot to type "style" in my responses. these tuners are kluson style 3x3 tuners but they do have the split safety posts. i guess i wasnt aware of the scarcity of 3x3 safety tuners. sorrryyyyy

[alexpigment]

im honestly not sure if they do. i know they must have. my mosrite combo has 3x3 kluson deluxe safety tuners. maybe i forgot to type "style" in my responses. these tuners are kluson style 3x3 tuners but they do have the split safety posts. i guess i wasnt aware of the scarcity of 3x3 safety tuners. sorrryyyyy

Ah, *Mosrite* is the key word apparently when searching for this type. Thanks, from me in the future when I buy these...in the future