Peoples’ Criticisms of Classic Player JM

[Elixxrx66]

From what ive been reading the 3 main problems that JM purists have is with the pickups, the bridge being a TOM and the fact that the vibrato (it has nothing to do with tremolo effect) is moved closer to the bridge. I’ll adress each one.

1. As far as the criticism of the pickups having too much output and not sounding as good. I will agree with this point right here. While I don’t think they sound anything like a real P90 because they are too bright they have was too much harshness to sound like a good Fender pickup. Which is why I installed a set of Vintage ‘65’s in mine.

2. The issue concerning the bridge being a TOM bridge. That is actually a plus for me because I’ve always had a TOM bridge so I know them. Besides if it’s good enough for J. Mascis then it’s good enough for me. (Note I have installed a roller bridge and it helps the guitar stay in tune when using the vibrato bar)

3. To the issue of the vibrato being moved forward, I’ve read just as many complaints about the distance of the vibrato on Vintage and American models as I’ve read praise for these things. Things such as tuning stability, that screw on the vibrato, as well as the string buzzing that others seem to like.

If the Jazzmaster is perfect the way it is then why do things like Mastery Bridge and the Stay-Trem exist? I have read in thread after thread on this site of people complaining about the problem with the original bridge as well as the vibrato and time and time again the answer is for these people to spend another $300 to make a $2k guitar playable. Seems rather odd to me. Someone posted in a response to an earlier thread about the CP that the original JM were designed the way they were for a specific reason and it should not be changed. I would just like to say what Leo Fender originally designed the original JM for turned out to be a complete failure. It was musicians and bands playing types of music that Leo Fender never designed it for that has kept it going. Why is it perfectly okay for you to fix these design flaws by spending an extra $300 but it’s not okay for Fender to try and fix these problems?

[Grey]

I don't think anyone is claiming the Jazzmaster is perfect, but all of these things change the definitive JM sound into something else. The bridge isn't just a TOM, it's also not floated. The trem position reduces the string length behind the bridge quite a bit, which removes some of the harmonics created there, and the pickups are basically just P90's.

It doesn't sound like a JM, and for people who want the JM sound that's obviously going to be a negative.

[Elixxrx66]

Like I said I totally agree with the pickup sound on CP’s. As far as the bridge goes the moment these people put a Mastery bridge on their guitar there goes any look of originality of the first one as well as the fact that there. goes your bridge rocking back and forth. I can’t say about the extra harmonics you get from playing behind the bridge I have read just as many complaints about it from tuning stability, lack of sustain and that screw holding the vibrato coming into contacts with the string. So isn’t someone who owns an original JM who addresses these issues changing it into another guitar? My point is that either way people are changing the originality of the guitar. There is nothing wrong with that from a player’s perspective if the original had flaws.

[Danley]

If the Jazzmaster is perfect the way it is then why do things like Mastery Bridge and the Stay-Trem exist?

A combination of user error, internet old wives tales from people without first-hand experience, and people mistaking the cheap import hardware for the actual quality US Fender stuff (there are cheap Strats/Floyd’s that don’t work well too.) The flip-side of your over-condensed argument is my own - if I have three (at the moment) Jaguars/Jazzmasters with no bridge rattle or stability problems using the stock bridge/vibrato (along with others I've flipped/sold,) then what is everyone *else's* problem?

An AVRI bridge and vibrato are pretty much set and forget nowadays anyway, they are pretty good quality. Also - the Mastery in particular is NOT perfect either.

[BoringPostcards]

I love vintage correct Jazzmasters, but I’m also a big fan of the CP models.

I like the CP Jaguar a lot as well.

I didn’t like either until I tried them, but when I did I wanted both.

[soul1]

I love the CP JM, I think it's one of the best JM's that Fender produces.

It's ironic that it's quite similar to the Squier Mascis (Tuneomatic, radius, nearly identical pickups, etc), yet people love to praise the Mascis.

[601210]

This old, tired argument is older and tireder than my grandma, and she's been dead for years.

I'm pretty sure nobody nobody outside of guitar center types will claim these days that classic players are objectively worse, just different.

One thing you're missing is you seem to be insinuating that each solution is equal.

A mastery, staytrem, and aom bridge solve the problem in different ways, depending on your perception of what the problem is to begin with, and what parameters you value.

Same for adding a buzz stop, or moving the vibrato closer, or shimming the neck and jacking up the bridge. All different solutions that have different effects.

Nobody thinks classic players are bad guitars. They're just different in ways from what most people here tend to like.

[Squareball]

I think you’ll find that “people’s” view of the CP series on this forum mainly come from when they originally came out.
(You first posted these comments on a thread from 2013)
At the time there was an excitement of new offsets being released by Fender as previously there were only American (expensive) or Japanese (mainly import only or second hand) models on the market. There wasn’t even a Squier VM at the time! Any other budget offset either had humbuckers or a stop tail bridge like the Blacktops. Compare that to the Strat or Tele where you could get the same looking guitar from Bullet/Affinity all the way up to Custom shop.
So the general disappointment at the brand new CP models with all the adjustments you list was justified at the time. Jazzmaster fans wanted a cheaper option to the AVRI but Specified like the ones when Fender made them in the Sixties and Seventies.

Cut to 2019 and you can pretty much get an offset in any shape or form - humbuckers, coil split, single coil, P-90s, TOM bridge, Stop tail, vintage tremolo, Modern Tremolo, screw in/pop in whammy bar, With or without the Rhythm circuit, different neck radius, Fret size, Spaghetti logo, CBS logo etc. - There are more options nowadays to buy a Jazzmaster/Jaguar than ever before.

Plus I think the CP models did sell so there was/is a market for them. (I own a CP Jaguar HH.)
If you look hard enough on this forum you will find that there are plenty of CP owners who are quite happy with their guitars.
Also see what Fender have done with the new Vintera line - Jazzmaster/Jaguars with two options, a traditional and a CP style.
Perfect.

[Ceylon]

I think Squareball is right in saying that most of the criticism is a carry-over from the first years it was out. I'd just gotten the offset bug and would have jumped on one of these had one come up at the right time. But people were kinda quick to shoot them down, and I have to say that rubbed off on me. Either way the CIJ one I ended up getting instead has always filled the hole.

But I think the real testament to just how good the CP is is that it's still been around until now and was never discontinued once for 10+ years. You see photos of real-life, medium-to-big name artists using them all the time, and while not too many people on here seem to have them or at least show them off all that much, they must have been selling a whole lot. I think they were perfect for people who wanted a Jazzmaster without some of the quirks and issues and either wanted or didn't mind some hotter pickups, and the fact that the SQJMJM went the same route and that the modern Vintera JM is basically the same exact thing proves that the concept is valid.

I figure us people on here represent a pretty small fraction of extremist nerds and that for each of us there's 20-30 people who just think Jazzmasters are neat but care less about vintage-correct details than about ubiquity, or what they perceive as ubiquity either way.

[Larry Mal]

I never cared all that much about vintage correct details for their own sake, but remember for a while there it seemed like basically Fender just could not admit that the Jazzmaster and Jaguar were actually good guitars and just put them out as they are, instead offering up only expensive vintage replicas and the bizarre Classic Player, which cosmetically only looked like the guitars they claimed to be.

And when they would put out offset guitars, it seemed like they didn't really understand the guitars at all. Most of the things that they did in those days to address longstanding (and valid) complaints with the Jazzmaster and Jaguar were extreme and poor choices.

Moving the tremolo unit to increase break angle is one of those. Sure, it might still leave you with a fine sounding guitar, but considering that you could increase break angle in any number of easier ways (a shim or an angled neck pocket) or that you could render the problems moot with just a mildly tweaked bridge (like a decent Mustang bridge) I just have to question the thinking behind that.

To me, Fender moving the tremolo unit to fix a problem at the bridge just told me that they didn't understand the guitars, they didn't care very much to, and they were going to program their machines to make the easiest possible solution for themselves. I got the feeling when they came up with the Classic Player that they sort of thought that the Jazzmaster really did suck and that they expected it to fall right out of fashion again any day now and weren't going to make much effort.

[Embenny]

Yep, they're totally fine guitars, they just are what they are, which is a Fender design with Gibson influences (TOM, P90 construction pickups). For those of us who like the Fender designs, it's unnecessary to bring in Gibson elements that just trade one problem for another (like a mismatched radius and high-friction bridge on a guitar with a vibrato designed for a floating bridge).

It's not an unusable guitar. I took one in as a trade and it played nicely, but the bridge still makes no sense to me.

Defending CPs is, as was mentioned above, a pretty tired trope at this point. The series has come and gone, it was what it was, and some people liked them while others didn't. It's fine that you like yours, and I'm happy for you. These just aren't exactly hot takes around here.

[Danley]

To me, Fender moving the tremolo unit to fix a problem at the bridge just told me that they didn't understand the guitars

Pretty much. I’m also in the boat of ‘hated it when they came out,’ but in those days your choices were limited to only vintage, AVRI or Japanese Jaguars so the market was more frustrating.

The CPs can def. play/sound fine; the one I had for a short period was a great guitar - better quality than MIJs I’ve handled. Just annoyed the ‘fixes’ they did were not necessary, yet now people are more inclined to think they are.

[Larry Mal]

Who knows. It's possible that Fender just wanted to get a rock solid, gig ready guitar out the door that people would feel comfortable with.

[Elixxrx66]

I agree and I will admit that I recently discovered that the radius mismatch between the bridge and neck did make my setup a little off. It was half a mm too high on the high side. That’s a minor complaint though

[NewKId]

I got my CPJM in February and like it a lot. It’s my first Jazzmaster so I don’t know any better and I guess my ignorance is bliss. I’m getting a beautiful warm tone out of it for jazz chord melody so I have no issue with the pickups. I would like to use the tremolo more but don’t really need it. It’s a nice to have.

Not sure if I’ll ever get another Jazzmaster because I’m a Tele person. That means I’m definitely getting another JM and next time I’m going for an AVRI.