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Re: Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jaguar

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:54 am
by Debaser
Cute bunny :-)

Re: Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jaguar

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:15 pm
by Mechanical Birds
I wasn’t being hostile in my posts at all or saying that anyone was stupid for liking something different or anything, just that’s it’s weird to hear someone say an objectively thin set of guitar strings are “MASSIVE” when they aren’t or that they typically use the next smallest size and that going from 10-11 is some wild thing most people couldn’t handle. I’ll stand behind the fact that certain guitars require bigger gauges to work as intended. If anyone can find a single person who bought a Vintage Modified VI and was able to use the stock strings on it and not have it sound like shit/be super uncomfortable, I’d love to talk to them.

Having said that, if you can put 9s on a Jaguar and have it function as it should, more power to you because that obviously takes more skill and a better understanding of guitar setup than most people have and is harder to pull off. A lot of the cliche criticisms of Jaguars and Jazzmasters are just bullshit anyway that’s been handed down over time by guys who never found them interesting and had to learn (or refuse to learn more often than not) new ways of making adjustments to the electric guitar to get them to work, so inevitably a bunch of them Seinfeld gif’d out of even trying and talked shit on them if they ever came up in conversation because they tried slapping 8s or something on one, once, in 1982.

Re: Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jaguar

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:54 pm
by alexpigment
Mechanical Birds wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:15 pm
I wasn’t being hostile in my posts at all or saying that anyone was stupid for liking something different or anything, just that’s it’s weird to hear someone say an objectively thin set of guitar strings are “MASSIVE” when they aren’t or that they typically use the next smallest size and that going from 10-11 is some wild thing most people couldn’t handle. I’ll stand behind the fact that certain guitars require bigger gauges to work as intended. If anyone can find a single person who bought a Vintage Modified VI and was able to use the stock strings on it and not have it sound like shit/be super uncomfortable, I’d love to talk to them.

Having said that, if you can put 9s on a Jaguar and have it function as it should, more power to you because that obviously takes more skill and a better understanding of guitar setup than most people have and is harder to pull off. A lot of the cliche criticisms of Jaguars and Jazzmasters are just bullshit anyway that’s been handed down over time by guys who never found them interesting and had to learn (or refuse to learn more often than not) new ways of making adjustments to the electric guitar to get them to work, so inevitably a bunch of them Seinfeld gif’d out of even trying and talked shit on them if they ever came up in conversation because they tried slapping 8s or something on one, once, in 1982.
On a basic level, increasing the string gauge just increases the break angle above the bridge, since the core of the strings sit slightly higher. Admittedly, the position of the tremolo on vintage JMs/Jags was not the best decision in my opinion, because any minor differences in manufacturing could cause the break angle to be insufficient. A lot of vintage guitars came with shims to address this and probably none of them played the same. Bridge heights vary both from the factory and based on the preferred height of the user, again affecting the break angle. That's where the negative opinions come from, I'd guess. But it should be pretty easy to use 9s on a JM or Jag if the break angle over the bridge is significant enough. I don't think it takes any really mastery of guitar setups - just knowing what factors contribute to that break angle and having the basic tools to address it.

Personally, that's why I went for the Mascis and the Squier Deluxe JMs - the tremolo being closer to the bridge increases that break angle. It's exactly like using a Buzz Stop but without the downsides. The angled neck pocket was a redundant and unnecessary addition on these guitars. I've reverse shimmed all of mine so I get a less angled neck. I hate when my bridge is so high that I can't easily rest my palm on the guitar while playing. 10s play fine on my JMs. 9s should play fine too. 8s could be fine but I'm sure as hell not going to go out and buy a set to test :)

I realize that the Jaguar will feel more 'bendy' with the strings compared to a normal 25.5" scale, but I don't think there's any issue with the break angle and getting the guitar to play properly. Getting used to 9s is really just a matter of using a lighter touch on your guitars. I personally don't have the patience to untrain my heavy hand, but I started out on 12s, so that's my excuse :)

Re: Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jaguar

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:17 pm
by Mechanical Birds
The first time I played someone else’s guitar with silly huge strings was when I went to check out an amp and this guy hands me his beautiful Les Paul Custom that looks no exaggeration like it’s string with bass strings and like a 55 for the high e. It probably wasn’t as bad as I remember but it blew my mind with how fun and weird it was to play. I don’t remember what I got for my VI but they’re definitely way below what’s normally go on a VI and honestly probably a lot thinner than what lots of people consider baritone strings. I love playing it but ever since I first got it all set up I’ve wanted to get some flats that are closer to what I “should be” using for it.

Very relevant and interesting, I know.

I’m excited to some day get a black one of these to match my VI. I caNt wait to actually get to play one. Real anxious to fuck around with the bridge.

Re: Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jaguar

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:37 pm
by zeero9
alexpigment wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:54 pm

On a basic level, increasing the string gauge just increases the break angle above the bridge, since the core of the strings sit slightly higher.
No man, that’s not why people advocate heavier strings for the offset bridge and trem. Those micro micro inches won’t make a difference. Higher gauge results in greater string tension bearing down on the bridge, so they don’t pop out.

Re: Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jaguar

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:00 pm
by alexpigment
zeero9 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:37 pm
alexpigment wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:54 pm

On a basic level, increasing the string gauge just increases the break angle above the bridge, since the core of the strings sit slightly higher.
No man, that’s not why people advocate heavier strings for the offset bridge and trem. Those micro micro inches won’t make a difference. Higher gauge results in greater string tension bearing down on the bridge, so they don’t pop out.
I'm not trying to get deep into the weeds about physics here, but isn't that the same thing? Without the increase in break angle, they would still pop out the exact same way.

Having said that, sure, I get your point. I was really just trying to address the previous post specifically. There are many reasons to increase string gauge, and break angle is just one of them.

Re: Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jaguar

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:05 pm
by timtam
alexpigment wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:00 pm
zeero9 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:37 pm
alexpigment wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:54 pm

On a basic level, increasing the string gauge just increases the break angle above the bridge, since the core of the strings sit slightly higher.
No man, that’s not why people advocate heavier strings for the offset bridge and trem. Those micro micro inches won’t make a difference. Higher gauge results in greater string tension bearing down on the bridge, so they don’t pop out.
I'm not trying to get deep into the weeds about physics here, but isn't that the same thing? Without the increase in break angle, they would still pop out the exact same way.

Having said that, sure, I get your point. I was really just trying to address the previous post specifically. There are many reasons to increase string gauge, and break angle is just one of them.
It is indeed the higher string tension that keeps the heavier gauge strings from popping out of the saddles. Despite what is effectively the same break angle. And the higher tension also makes them feel harder to bend. If you compare D'Addario 9-42 (EXL120) to 11-49 (EXL115), the heavier gauge set has 39% higher total string tension at the same tuning and scale length. That translates to a big increase in string down force on the saddles.

EXL120 9-42 -> 38.300 kgf tension
EXL115 11-49 -> 53.110 kgf tension

See Family Tension Chart here ..
http://www.daddario.com/DADProductDetai ... roductid=4

Re: Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jaguar

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:33 pm
by Futuron
Regardless of how things used to be, I think it's interesting regarding this "what is a normal string gauge" question considering what Fender does today.

Strats, Teles and most other guitars come stock with 9s. Some Jazzmasters come with 10s, maybe some other guitars I haven't noticed. You'd need a baritone or VI to find anything with more than that. (VM baritone came with 13s.) Fender strings are labelled as follows: 8s are extra light, 9s are light, 10s are regular, 11s are medium, 12s are heavy!

Personally, I have 9s for Strats, Teles or similar, 10s for Jazzmasters, Mustangs or similar, and 11s for Jaguars. That is for standard tuning - if I am tuned lower, then I'll string heavier. I don't see myself feeling comfortable with much more than that, one more at the most I reckon.


I wonder how much string-gauge-comfort has to do with fretboard radius? Older guitars had 7.25 with heavier strings. I've never played a guitar with that radius, only 9.5 & 12 (and compound).

Re: Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jaguar

Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:24 pm
by alexpigment
timtam wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:05 pm
It is indeed the higher string tension that keeps the heavier gauge strings from popping out of the saddles. Despite what is effectively the same break angle. And the higher tension also makes them feel harder to bend. If you compare D'Addario 9-42 (EXL120) to 11-49 (EXL115), the heavier gauge set has 39% higher total string tension at the same tuning and scale length. That translates to a big increase in string down force on the saddles.

EXL120 9-42 -> 38.300 kgf tension
EXL115 11-49 -> 53.110 kgf tension

See Family Tension Chart here ..
http://www.daddario.com/DADProductDetai ... roductid=4
(Well, I made a mess of the forum temporarily by creating posts - I think I was hitting the quote button instead of the edit button. Anyway, all cleaned up now)

I agree that there is more downward force on the saddles certainly. Anyway, there's a whole road to go down about tension vs compliance, but I'll save that for now. Again, was just trying to point out that 9s should work just fine with the correct break angle on a JM or Jag.

Re: Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jaguar

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:59 am
by Pacafeliz
:bored: ...why don't you guys get yourselves another room... aehm... thread to discuss this.

It might be relevant. But I wanna know more about the guitar here.

Peace.

Re: Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jaguar

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:26 am
by Steadyriot.
lespaulfreak93 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:51 am
I'm learning to adapt to the different string gauge and general "feel" and requirements of this thing more and more...
To put it plain and simple, I'm in love with the damn thing! Just look at it... But most of all I love how this thing challenges me and forces me to re-think my entire way of understanding the concept of guitar playing.
Yeah, forget the issues, I'm going for that Jazzmaster next month or in June.

Image
Image
Looks lovely!
I know it's sacrilege but I really don't mind the block size on these. Suits the short scale fine (in contrary to Gretsch's recent HUGE block inlays :k ).

That pillow is wholly inaccurate though; Tele's don't break! ;)

Re: Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jaguar

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:24 am
by jmurph
This thread isn't helping my GAS problem! Aside from the video review that reported a weight of over 8 pounds, has anyone heard any other weights? Maybe those of you who own one could kindly chime in on this, please.

Can't decide between the black & 3TS. All I know is that if I get one, I'm modding it with Jazzmaster pickups.

Re: Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jaguar

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:37 am
by lespaulfreak93
jmurph wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:24 am
This thread isn't helping my GAS problem! Aside from the video review that reported a weight of over 8 pounds, has anyone heard any other weights? Maybe those of you who own one could kindly chime in on this, please.

Can't decide between the black & 3TS. All I know is that if I get one, I'm modding it with Jazzmaster pickups.
Mine is by far my heaviest guitar out of 22, it's even heavier than my Jazz Bass!

Yeah, go ahead, call me a wimp, but it's very heavy at a horrible 4.8kg (10.6 lbs).
I hope I'm not gonna get called out and get a "10.6!!!! My guitar weighs 5 tons and I play 9 hour long sets with it! You know nothing" in reply.

Re: Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jaguar

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:55 am
by s_mcsleazy
on the string discussion. all my short scales are set up with dunlop 12-54 just to get the tension to feel right. my guitars are also set up with higher action than most.

Re: Squier Classic Vibe 70s Jaguar

Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:15 am
by 601210
I could be talking out of my ass but I always figured Jags tend to be on the heavy side cause of all the chrome and such.

The only thing keeping me from these is that there isn't a white one (or so I claim :whistle: )