Help a newbie pick a jag? Which M/CIJs are better?

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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Help a newbie pick a jag? Which M/CIJs are better?

Post by aboutstairs » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:15 pm

Hey guys,

I'm obviously pretty new to offsets. I play a Squier J. Mascis JM, and while I'm happy with its general sound and feel, the tone feels like it's lacking that special something. I'm virtually drooling over some of the Jaguars I've gotten to try out, so I think I'll be selling the JMJM and making the switch.

I’m looking for a Jag and wanna know what model’ll be most worth the money for me. My budget is pretty loosely $600-900. I’m a post-punk/alt-rock and surf type player; I love the plinky trebly single-coil sound to bits, but I also wouldn’t mind having a humbucker around for when I want a beefier high-gain-friendly sound. This is fairly low on my list of priorities though — I mostly just want a solid Jag that's a good investment. As vague points of reference I like the sounds of e.g. Roland S. Howard, Gang of Four, Tom Verlaine.

The options I’m looking at right now are:

MIM Player (HS) Jag for ~$670 — this seemed like a sensible all-in-one kinda option but I’d be willing to dish out extra for something better

MIM Classic Player HH Jag w/ split-coil switch for ~$930 — got to play around with this one at GC and it seemed pretty impressively versatile but on the pricier side. Are the pups in this good?

MIJ ‘84 Jag (SS) for ~$900 — the condition on this one may be a touch short of mint but the basic low-res photos I’ve seen of it look very good to say the least. I’ve heard good things about Japanese Jags but I don’t know which years are the most desirable. Potentially pesky standard Jag bridge.

CIJ "late-'90s" '66 reissue Jag with Lollar SS pickups and an installed treble bleed and 1meg volume pot — still looking into whether I like Lollar pups or not. I'm not well versed enough to know if the added treble bleed and custom volume pot are neat features or not. Help here would be esp. appreciated. Standard bridge but w/ a handsome matching headstock :)

CIJ 2003 Jag (SS) for $900 — this one is brand new or somewhere thereabouts. I’ve heard good things about this run for sure but I’d go for an older/different model if it’s better electronically or build-wise. Standard Jag bridge here too.

Any help I can get on this is very much appreciated. Fender offset models and releases take my head for a spin. I know for sure I liked the spaghetti tone of the $1000+ SS Jag I played with (I believe it was an American Professional — it had the 4-way parallel/series switch), but also felt vaguely tempted by that HH. I’d consider rewiring an SS model down the road if I really feel the need, but I'd like to get my hands on a good model first.

Thanks all.

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Re: Help a newbie pick a jag? Which M/CIJs are better?

Post by Ceylon » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:51 pm

Out of the models you've listed, and assuming you want a sort of traditional Jaguar, I'd go for one of the Japanese ones, and probably either the '84 one or the '66 reissue. 1984 I think was the first year that Fender Japan started making offsets after they were discontinued by Fender USA (in either 1978 or 1982) and so they have that certain kind of vintage appeal. Some people claim that the initial run used parts left over from the American production, and I couldn't say for sure if it was original or not, but I played one that definitely had a USA vibrato unit at least.

As for the '66, taste varies of course, and I never played any myself, but Lollar pickups have a great reputation and are definitely to be seen as an upgrade over the pickups that would have been in there in the first place. 1 meg pots is what you want in Jazzmasters and Jaguars (not sure what's stock in CIJs and MIJs) and a treble bleed might be a nice/useful thing to have, but none of those really increase the value and are only really pros if the work was done well. A Matching headstock, though, is always gonna make the guitar worth a bit more if you want to sell it down the road, because yes, it does look handsome :D

I'm biased towards Japanese because both real Fenders I've owned myself were from Fender Japan and they were both great, and my '94 CIJ Jazzmaster is the guitar I'll hang onto forever. Build quality is going to be high even if a lot of people upgrade some of the electronics and the vibrato down the line, but all the foundational stuff, fit and finish is most likely going to be damn good.

Otherwise, for 900$, it's not impossible you could sweep up a Mexican Road Worn or Classic Lacquer either used or new on sale, and those come with American AV'65 pickups and nitro finishes and are meant to be awesome.
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Re: Help a newbie pick a jag? Which M/CIJs are better?

Post by raindog13 » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:07 pm

Truth be told, I'd recommend the SS Classic Player by the sounds of what you're looking for. I have what is essentially one of these (a FSR Ken Custom Jag), and the pickups in it are hot wound singles. I personally think it's extremely versatile, and covers a wide range of sounds, from spanky surf to snarly punk. The neck is wonderful, too!

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Re: Help a newbie pick a jag? Which M/CIJs are better?

Post by Embenny » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:23 pm

raindog13 wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:07 pm
Truth be told, I'd recommend the SS Classic Player by the sounds of what you're looking for. I have what is essentially one of these (a FSR Ken Custom Jag), and the pickups in it are hot wound singles. I personally think it's extremely versatile, and covers a wide range of sounds, from spanky surf to snarly punk. The neck is wonderful, too!
The SS CP or MIJ/MIJ jags are the way to go IMO as well.

With a soldering iron and a few minutes, you can wire any Jag for the series mod (where turning both pickups "off" puts them in series) which gives you a thick, high output tone for when you really want to drive an amp or pedals. If you like the Jag singlecoil tone, I find this a better compromise than putting in humbuckers and coil splitting them (which sounds thinner and crappier than true singles IMO).
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Re: Help a newbie pick a jag? Which M/CIJs are better?

Post by aboutstairs » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:30 pm

Ceylon wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:51 pm
Out of the models you've listed, and assuming you want a sort of traditional Jaguar, I'd go for one of the Japanese ones, and probably either the '84 one or the '66 reissue. 1984 I think was the first year that Fender Japan started making offsets after they were discontinued by Fender USA (in either 1978 or 1982) and so they have that certain kind of vintage appeal. Some people claim that the initial run used parts left over from the American production, and I couldn't say for sure if it was original or not, but I played one that definitely had a USA vibrato unit at least.

As for the '66, taste varies of course, and I never played any myself, but Lollar pickups have a great reputation and are definitely to be seen as an upgrade over the pickups that would have been in there in the first place. 1 meg pots is what you want in Jazzmasters and Jaguars (not sure what's stock in CIJs and MIJs) and a treble bleed might be a nice/useful thing to have, but none of those really increase the value and are only really pros if the work was done well. A Matching headstock, though, is always gonna make the guitar worth a bit more if you want to sell it down the road, because yes, it does look handsome :D

I'm biased towards Japanese because both real Fenders I've owned myself were from Fender Japan and they were both great, and my '94 CIJ Jazzmaster is the guitar I'll hang onto forever. Build quality is going to be high even if a lot of people upgrade some of the electronics and the vibrato down the line, but all the foundational stuff, fit and finish is most likely going to be damn good.

Otherwise, for 900$, it's not impossible you could sweep up a Mexican Road Worn or Classic Lacquer either used or new on sale, and those come with American AV'65 pickups and nitro finishes and are meant to be awesome.
The guy seems to have done the pot/treble bleed work himself. Eh. I am leaning towards the 66 but I'll mull it over. Thanks much.

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Re: Help a newbie pick a jag? Which M/CIJs are better?

Post by aboutstairs » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:36 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:23 pm
raindog13 wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:07 pm
Truth be told, I'd recommend the SS Classic Player by the sounds of what you're looking for. I have what is essentially one of these (a FSR Ken Custom Jag), and the pickups in it are hot wound singles. I personally think it's extremely versatile, and covers a wide range of sounds, from spanky surf to snarly punk. The neck is wonderful, too!
The SS CP or MIJ/MIJ jags are the way to go IMO as well.

With a soldering iron and a few minutes, you can wire any Jag for the series mod (where turning both pickups "off" puts them in series) which gives you a thick, high output tone for when you really want to drive an amp or pedals. If you like the Jag singlecoil tone, I find this a better compromise than putting in humbuckers and coil splitting them (which sounds thinner and crappier than true singles IMO).
This is very useful to know. True, the HH coil split deal did end up sounding pretty thin. I guess I was just starstruck by the fact that turning an HB into a single coil via nebulous circuitry magic is possible : - 0

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Re: Help a newbie pick a jag? Which M/CIJs are better?

Post by Embenny » Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:53 pm

aboutstairs wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:36 pm
This is very useful to know. True, the HH coil split deal did end up sounding pretty thin. I guess I was just starstruck by the fact that turning an HB into a single coil via nebulous circuitry magic is possible : - 0
The basic choice is to turn a perfect humbucker tone into an imperfect single coil tone (coil split, like the dial-a-tap used on the HH CP you tried), or to turn a perfect single coil tone into a imperfect humbucker tone (by wiring two proper singles in series).

There are some HBs specifically designed for splitting, which seek to bridge that gap, but ultimately they end up compromising in some way. All 3 options can sound great. You just need to decide which tone you value more highly - the humbucker or the single.
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Re: Help a newbie pick a jag? Which M/CIJs are better?

Post by leokula » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:59 am

mbene085 wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:23 pm
The SS CP or MIJ/MIJ jags are the way to go IMO as well.
Seconding this. I have one of each, they're quite different and if you want hotter pickups, go with the CP.

Two other differences to mind are neck radius and trem placement... japanese ones have the 7.25 radius while the CP has 9.5 and the CP has the trem closer to the bridge. I don't mind it, but some people are bothered by it, take a close look at the pictures and see if it's an issue for you.

Ultimately, I think you can't go wrong with the CP. I like the japanese for being true to vintage specs, even in the low output pickups, but that's not as versatile.
Jaguar > Jazzmaster :)

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Re: Help a newbie pick a jag? Which M/CIJs are better?

Post by Stephen_42 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:32 am

mbene085 wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:23 pm
raindog13 wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:07 pm
Truth be told, I'd recommend the SS Classic Player by the sounds of what you're looking for. I have what is essentially one of these (a FSR Ken Custom Jag), and the pickups in it are hot wound singles. I personally think it's extremely versatile, and covers a wide range of sounds, from spanky surf to snarly punk. The neck is wonderful, too!
The SS CP or MIJ/MIJ jags are the way to go IMO as well.

With a soldering iron and a few minutes, you can wire any Jag for the series mod (where turning both pickups "off" puts them in series) which gives you a thick, high output tone for when you really want to drive an amp or pedals. If you like the Jag singlecoil tone, I find this a better compromise than putting in humbuckers and coil splitting them (which sounds thinner and crappier than true singles IMO).
+1 for the series mod.

Though if you're a newbie, "a few minutes" is very ambitious!

I also put a treble bleed on to my Jag. Now that is literally a few minutes to install/uninstall if you don't like it.

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Re: Help a newbie pick a jag? Which M/CIJs are better?

Post by aboutstairs » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:08 am

Wound up going with the '66 w/ matching headstock, Lollars, 1meg volume pot, and treble bleed. It's got a small but notable dent in the back but otherwise seems pretty much like my dream guitar. I guess I'll find out in a week or so. Thanks guys ;D

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Re: Help a newbie pick a jag? Which M/CIJs are better?

Post by aboutstairs » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:13 am

And hey, if I end up not liking the Lollars, I could always slap these on the guitar as a safe bet for a good classic Jag sound, right?

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Re: Help a newbie pick a jag? Which M/CIJs are better?

Post by Oliveeer » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:47 am

I'll also put my vote on the SS CP Jag. Mostly because they're a lot cheaper than japanese ones (at least in my country). Quality wise, my current CP Jag is by all means on par with the japanese I've owned, and the pickups beinger hotter should probably fit your style of music great.

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Re: Help a newbie pick a jag? Which M/CIJs are better?

Post by Mechanical Birds » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:56 am

What colors are they

Out of the ones you listed I’d go for the one with the Lollard. Jason will never steer you wrong.

Personally I’d say forget any of the MIM things unless it’s a Classic 60s Lacquer thing.

Don’t buy anything brand new.

Above all, the way you’ve described yr situation, my personal recommendation, like the one most commonly heard around here, would be to spend just a little bit more money and go for the Johnny Marr Jaguar. The series mod gets you to yr humbucker place and everything else gets you yr desired plunk thing, while still sounding unique to other Jags out there.

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Re: Help a newbie pick a jag? Which M/CIJs are better?

Post by raindog13 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:14 pm

aboutstairs wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:13 am
And hey, if I end up not liking the Lollars, I could always slap these on the guitar as a safe bet for a good classic Jag sound, right?
Congrats on the guitar! Pictures?

Also, a lot of people find that, while great sounding, the Pure Vintage 65's are a little too vintage. I myself like them, but then again, I have a set of Creamery Jag90's in my 65(to be fair though, they came already installed, and I like the sound of them enough to not swap them out). Again I'd recommend the CP hot single coils, if you can find a set used. If not, Seymour Duncan makes hot Jaguar pickups that I've heard the Fenders are actually modeled after, so maybe look into those.

Edit: And while I've never used Lollars myself, I've heard nothing but praise about them, so really, you may not need to change anything at all!

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Re: Help a newbie pick a jag? Which M/CIJs are better?

Post by Larsongs » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:58 pm

If I didn't have an AV65 Jag I would seriously consider one of these.... Fender Lacquer 60's Jags with AV65 Pickups, Nitro finish & other Vintage Specs. + it comes with a Hard Case.

MAP is $1024.00.. You should be able to negotiate 15-20% off...

Here's a link...https://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars ... ric-guitar

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