We need a new Bridge Champion

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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loveinathens
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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by loveinathens » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:38 pm

timtam wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:06 pm
loveinathens wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:38 pm
just made better in general with better metal.
I see metal-type as almost a total intangible when it comes to offset bridges. Yes there are cheap metals and there are expensive ones. But as long as the parts fit together, they don't wear out quickly or come apart, and they don't have rough edges, I am not sure that I need to be worried about whether a given functional bridge design is made from cheaper or more expensive metal (BTW that's different from the ease of manufacture). Aesthetics do matter to some, eg some love the Mastery 'brushed' look (and some hate it), some love brass, etc. But many don't want to pay for that (Mastery).

But what does the market really want from an offset bridge metal-wise ?
Having played OEM/stock Squier, CIJ/MIJ, Japanese Mustang bridges, BTJM bridges, and AVRI bridges against each other, there's something about the AVRI bridge that just sounds more detailed to me. I a/b-ed all of them on the same guitar, and the stock AVRI just had more sparkle to it that the other bridges didn't seem to have.

I've also played (not owned) guitars with Mastery and Staytrem bridges and while the sonic differences are noticeable, given the price difference, the returns aren't that stellar.

This may be negligible for most in an amplified/dirty setting but I do love how it sounds clean in my experience.

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:03 pm

mackerelmint wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:03 pm
Unicorn Warrior wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:26 pm
It's definitely time. Mastery has been running the show on us for too long with the elevated price.
I don't think the price is elevated for what it is, which is an overcomplicated piece of design. I've thought through what it would take in terms of work to make one, and it's just way more labor intensive than it really has any right to be. And, of course, demand seems to be outstripping supply, so the price could reasonably be set higher than it is.

It's just time for a more graceful and economical solution to win out.
I don't agree that the price could be higher. It's a bridge we're talking about that's marginally more beneficial than the stock one. Everyone wants their guitars to play as good as they can, but when push comes to shove I feel that a higher priced mastery would price them out of business. Before spending more, people will do a simple low cost upgrade, or go with a cheaper alternativ/nothing at all (or at least I would). It's just a matter of time before someone makes that cheaper alternative. An elevated Mastery price would surely put even more incentive than what already exists for another competitor.

Hopefully from here...

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by mackerelmint » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:34 pm

Unicorn Warrior wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:03 pm
mackerelmint wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:03 pm
Unicorn Warrior wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:26 pm
It's definitely time. Mastery has been running the show on us for too long with the elevated price.
I don't think the price is elevated for what it is, which is an overcomplicated piece of design. I've thought through what it would take in terms of work to make one, and it's just way more labor intensive than it really has any right to be. And, of course, demand seems to be outstripping supply, so the price could reasonably be set higher than it is.

It's just time for a more graceful and economical solution to win out.
I don't agree that the price could be higher. It's a bridge we're talking about that's marginally more beneficial than the stock one. Everyone wants their guitars to play as good as they can, but when push comes to shove I feel that a higher priced mastery would price them out of business. Before spending more, people will do a simple low cost upgrade, or go with a cheaper alternativ/nothing at all (or at least I would). It's just a matter of time before someone makes that cheaper alternative. An elevated Mastery price would surely put even more incentive than what already exists for another competitor.

Hopefully from here...
Basic economics tells us that it can, and so does the fact that they made a decision not to ramp up production despite demand being there.

Individual willingness to pay is all over the place, and there's no mechanism for people to pay more and subsidize the people who want to pay less, or at least there won't be until fair trade guitar bridges are a thing. Don't let your own willingness to pay trick you into assuming it's the same for everyone.
This is an excellent rectangle

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by oid » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:08 pm

mackerelmint wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:34 pm
Basic economics tells us that it can, and so does the fact that they made a decision not to ramp up production despite demand being there.
The mastery can not really be much cheaper, its design requires the bridge the be machined from billet which is expensive. It can be done considerably cheaper with some aesthetic changes, but those never go over well and words like billet are good for marketing.

I have been working over simplifying the construction of the bridge to lower labor and machine needs, think I have an idea or two that will work well. Not sure if I will ever go into any sort of production, but I would share the designs and construction detaila with a suitable person. Think I have it down to under 2 hours with my hand tools, well under an hour with a couple power tools.
Logic gates based on billiard-ball computer designs have also been made to operate using live soldier crabs of the species Mictyris guinotae in place of the billiard balls.

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:44 pm

mackerelmint wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:34 pm

Basic economics tells us that it can, and so does the fact that they made a decision not to ramp up production despite demand being there.

Individual willingness to pay is all over the place, and there's no mechanism for people to pay more and subsidize the people who want to pay less, or at least there won't be until fair trade guitar bridges are a thing. Don't let your own willingness to pay trick you into assuming it's the same for everyone.
I guess my thesis is that Mastery wouldn't be doing themselves any favors by raising their prices. Yes, sure they can do it because their main competitor is now limited. But a bridge just as efficient can be made for less. I'm optimistic and I feel that's it's just a matter of time.

I don't doubt that it's expensive to make. But as mentioned by someone before it's an overcomplicated design. I've bought two over time and I firmly believe that staytrem is a better product and was 2/3 the cost. Just had 0 marketing and 0 care to improve upon that.

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by oid » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:10 pm

I think I just got that last big piece of the puzzle and have a bridge that would satisfy most people in either the staytrem or mastery camp. I may start in on a prototype, I think I have some suitable brass in the scrap bin.

Only things that I have yet to sort is an alternative to springs that I am happy with and a way to keep screw from backing out that does not require close tolerances on backlash that not even mastery can justify with their pricey work. Got a few ideas for both.

The real problem will be to find someone to produce it since it is unlikely I will make more than a few.
Logic gates based on billiard-ball computer designs have also been made to operate using live soldier crabs of the species Mictyris guinotae in place of the billiard balls.

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:14 pm

Right on man. Keep us posted

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by oid » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:30 pm

Damnit, I am actually thinking about going into production, I already decided I will make a few so I can get some out in the hands of other people to test them out and work out any bugs.

Edit: hah! Saved, I would need a lathe to produce in any saleable quantity and I am not going to buy a lathe. May still make some for sale until I find a suitable person to take over. That is assuming my plans work in reality and not just on paper.
Last edited by oid on Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Logic gates based on billiard-ball computer designs have also been made to operate using live soldier crabs of the species Mictyris guinotae in place of the billiard balls.

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:35 pm

Oh man...please make conversions for us JMJM/classic player people

And keep us posted. These are exciting times

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by oid » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:45 pm

Unicorn Warrior wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:35 pm
Oh man...please make conversions for us JMJM/classic player people

And keep us posted. These are exciting times
Making a conversion bridge using the TOM posts would be fairly simple, especially using off the shelf saddles. Only hard part is drilling those two holes perfectly. Anyone have the spacing on the posts for those?

No lathe needed here, I can probably make some bridges and let folk purchase the saddles of their choice.

Edit, that is a standard spacing easy to look up and I have a bridge at home I can measure off of, not sure why I asked such a question.

Last Edit: just looked at the staytrem conversion, I misunderstood what was meant, that needs a lathe, so it will not be me making them.
Logic gates based on billiard-ball computer designs have also been made to operate using live soldier crabs of the species Mictyris guinotae in place of the billiard balls.

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:16 am

oid wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:45 pm
Unicorn Warrior wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:35 pm
Oh man...please make conversions for us JMJM/classic player people

And keep us posted. These are exciting times
Making a conversion bridge using the TOM posts would be fairly simple, especially using off the shelf saddles. Only hard part is drilling those two holes perfectly. Anyone have the spacing on the posts for those?

No lathe needed here, I can probably make some bridges and let folk purchase the saddles of their choice.

Edit, that is a standard spacing easy to look up and I have a bridge at home I can measure off of, not sure why I asked such a question.

Last Edit: just looked at the staytrem conversion, I misunderstood what was meant, that needs a lathe, so it will not be me making them.
I just ended up buying one of the old drop in staytrems. I'm not savy with measurements but I'll try to give an approximation when it arrives

Edit: nevermind..just read the las part of your post! Shouldn't be too hard to crank out..but I have no idea how to

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by arkivel » Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:00 am

Gordon wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:19 am
arkivel wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:14 pm
Cut string grooves on the top of the saddles with a 9.5 radius and cut grooves on the bottom of the saddles with a 7.25 radius. Put a little mark on the saddle to show the orientation. This way there is one set of saddles for the two most common radii.
But I see an issue: the bottom of the saddles have to stay flat to rest on the bridge plate, so if they're reversible, they're rectangular, and the grooves make up the radius. Each groove on a typical saddle should be made according to string gauge, but since it sits on top of the saddle, not much of an issue if you go for a heavier set; however, with a deep groove, one won't be able to do so. And the solution to this (larger grooves) may be problematic for regular/lighter gauge, as there would be some lateral travel and therefore added friction.

Or do I imagine things? :ph34r:
Mastery has saddle grooves that are all sized the same. I think it can be done.

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by solfege » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:15 pm

mackerelmint wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:49 pm
Gimme a few months. It's on my to-do list.

Not kidding. I'm seriously thinking about doing this for a part time cottage industry hobby.
Please!

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by timtam » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:15 pm

Just adding @BrendanP's interesting effort to the bridge discussion in case anyone missed it ...
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/vie ... 5#p1524081

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by ThePearDream » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:20 am

I did get my 3D printed saddles last week.

Image

I got the first one tapped, then broke a tap off in a second saddle. The next day i bought a few more taps, then broke one off in a 3rd saddle. I haven't even tried to tap the last three saddles yet. This doesn't seem like a viable route.

I did come up with a third design with a triangular profile. I may still try to print these up using a different service that offers stainless steel. Having less material to tap through might make for better results.

Image

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