We need a new Bridge Champion

[mackerelmint]

Gimme a few months. It's on my to-do list.

Not kidding. I'm seriously thinking about doing this for a part time cottage industry hobby.

[Unicorn Warrior]

Gimme a few months. It's on my to-do list.

Not kidding. I'm seriously thinking about doing this for a part time cottage industry hobby.

It would definitely fulfill a need. Even if it's a small one. Mastery is just too expensive and to some have left a lot to be desired. They also suffer from conversion issues by not allowing for TOM drop in/thimble replacements like staytrem had.

[adamrobertt]

Is it completely unlikely that a company like Fender or Allparts or even Mastery would buy the Staytrem brand or design and start producing them for the mass market?

[Larry Mal]

If Fender doesn't care by now why would they start caring in the future? Besides, StayTrem only makes a better version of a Fender design. What exactly would Fender be buying? They already have the capabilities of making a great bridge they just don't care to. It's like sandwiches... if you have the capability of making a bad sandwich you probably have the capabilities of making a good one, you just don't care to.

Weird that in 2018 Jazzmaster players are still having the same conversations as in 1968. Electric guitars can be such bullshit of cheap, old technology dumbed down in Indonesian factories. Expecting anything much out of Fender is a waste of time, the market doesn't demand anything so they won't do anything. Megan is debating smithing her own bridges for the damn things, and that is considered good by the people that have- this is important- already bought the guitars.

No sales will be prevented, if Megan doesn't smith up a bridge (I'm not mocking) then people will just deal with the problem in another way. What they won't do is not buy the Fender guitar in the first place.

Fuck Fender- anyway, StayTrem was great and Mastery is great. People complain about Mastery and the expense but at least with them, making the very best bridge is the goal first and foremost. If they could make a better bridge they would do it, you could say the same about StayTrem. That's certainly not true with everything Fender makes, where the bottom line is the rule.

I still can't believe that this is a conversation. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with, Megan! Get that side hustle going!

[adamrobertt]

If Fender doesn't care by now why would they start caring in the future? Besides, StayTrem only makes a better version of a Fender design. What exactly would Fender be buying? They already have the capabilities of making a great bridge they just don't care to. It's like sandwiches... if you have the capability of making a bad sandwich you probably have the capabilities of making a good one, you just don't care to.

Weird that in 2018 Jazzmaster players are still having the same conversations as in 1968. Electric guitars can be such bullshit of cheap, old technology dumbed down in Indonesian factories. Expecting anything much out of Fender is a waste of time, the market doesn't demand anything so they won't do anything. Megan is debating smithing her own bridges for the damn things, and that is considered good by the people that have- this is important- already bought the guitars.

No sales will be prevented, if Megan doesn't smith up a bridge (I'm not mocking) then people will just deal with the problem in another way. What they won't do is not buy the Fender guitar in the first place.

Fuck Fender- anyway, StayTrem was great and Mastery is great. People complain about Mastery and the expense but at least with them, making the very best bridge is the goal first and foremost. If they could make a better bridge they would do it, you could say the same about StayTrem. That's certainly not true with everything Fender makes, where the bottom line is the rule.

I still can't believe that this is a conversation. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with, Megan! Get that side hustle going!

The Mastery sucks, though. It solves one problem and creates 3 more, in addition to being exorbitantly expensive and kinda ugly.

I understand what you're saying about Fender being an eViL cOrPoRaTiOn and everything, but they've used Staytrem components on their guitars before, haven't they? Or at least borrowed their ideas. It wouldn't cost Fender much to produce a similar bridge (or exact if they obtained their schematics) and they would definitely make money on it... there's definitely a market. If Mastery can sustain itself purely based on bridge and tremolo sales, then why wouldn't Fender want a cut of that, especially with offsets being increasingly popular?

[Larry Mal]

I don't know why they wouldn't... presumably they've crunched the numbers and found that it's not worth it to them. Like, let's say they sell twenty offset guitars, and one or two people goes out and buys a Mastery or a StayTrem, then why does Fender care to make a better bridge for all the other guitars? It may not increase sales at all and most people don't care.

I'm not defending it, I'm just saying that if you've thought about it, Fender has thought about it. You are not seeing the results of them not knowing that their bridges are lacking- they did develop that Custom Shop bridge after all. You are seeing the results of them not caring to have a better bridge. This is what they offer, take it or leave it- their research indicates that people will take it.

I should probably not participate in this thread, so I'll just leave it as I have no idea what you are referring to with Mastery bridges fixing one problem and causing another. From what I can tell, and I do own four of them, they are set and forget. I have had no trouble or no complaints with any of them and have never had to do even one little thing to make them work as expected after the initial setup. Between all four guitars we are probably looking at fifteen- twenty years of total ownership and use of Mastery bridges, again, not one little problem nor adjustment has been needed at any point in all those years.

[adamrobertt]

I don't know why they wouldn't... presumably they've crunched the numbers and found that it's not worth it to them. Like, let's say they sell twenty offset guitars, and one or two people goes out and buys a Mastery or a StayTrem, then why does Fender care to make a better bridge for all the other guitars? It may not increase sales at all and most people don't care.

I'm not defending it, I'm just saying that if you've thought about it, Fender has thought about it. You are not seeing the results of them not knowing that their bridges are lacking- they did develop that Custom Shop bridge after all. You are seeing the results of them not caring to have a better bridge. This is what they offer, take it or leave it- their research indicates that people will take it.

I should probably not participate in this thread, so I'll just leave it as I have no idea what you are referring to with Mastery bridges fixing one problem and causing another. From what I can tell, and I do own four of them, they are set and forget. I have had no trouble or no complaints with any of them and have never had to do even one little thing to make them work as expected after the initial setup. Between all four guitars we are probably looking at fifteen- twenty years of total ownership and use of Mastery bridges, again, not one little problem nor adjustment has been needed at any point in all those years.

My experience with the Mastery has been totally different. I owned two on two different offsets (a Jazz and a Jag) and while they did increase sustain, they didn't completely solve "string jump" issues - I still had to shim both - and they also introduced new sympathetic vibrations (from the two saddle bars vibrating together) that were very distracting. Also I didn't like how you can't accurately intonate them due to their saddle design. I swapped it for a Staytrem and never looked back.

[Larry Mal]

Sure, I've heard enough complaints that I can imagine that Mastery bridges aren't for everyone. I guess I just got lucky. I do, though, shim my Fenders by default immediately as part of routine setup.

I'm not married to the brand, though, and if there was another alternative out there I would like that. I have a '68 Jaguar that I am rehabbing and at some point I'll need a new bridge. I was debating between Mastery a StayTrem, now there's only one choice and I sure wish there was more. Frankly, the budget for this rehab is not great and having to drop $200 for the bridge just means it's much into the future when I get that together.

No idea what StayTrem is doing, that's weird. I would have been happy buying the stupid Fender Custom Shop bridge that everyone hates so much. The Jess Louirio or whatever sucks and that's about it.

Megan is the only hope.

[adamrobertt]

Sure, I've heard enough complaints that I can imagine that Mastery bridges aren't for everyone. I guess I just got lucky. I do, though, shim my Fenders by default immediately as part of routine setup.

I'm not married to the brand, though, and if there was another alternative out there I would like that. I have a '68 Jaguar that I am rehabbing and at some point I'll need a new bridge. I was debating between Mastery a StayTrem, now there's only one choice and I sure wish there was more. Frankly, the budget for this rehab is not great and having to drop $200 for the bridge just means it's much into the future when I get that together.

No idea what StayTrem is doing, that's weird. I would have been happy buying the stupid Fender Custom Shop bridge that everyone hates so much. The Jess Louirio or whatever sucks and that's about it.

Megan is the only hope.

I usually shim my Fenders too, even Strats, but Mastery says that "no shim is needed" so I was mostly commenting on that. I was a little miffed that I still had string jump issues with a bridge that was specifically designed to prevent it.

[Larry Mal]

Yeah, I don't know. I haven't had that problem but I play with thin picks and with a light hand, so maybe I wouldn't anyway. I grew up playing with the stock Japanese made bridge on my Jazzmaster, maybe I developed my light touch from that. I was able to get around on that without too much string jumping and the Mastery feels rock solid by comparison.

I think Mastery is just one of those brands that people love to hate, kind of like Gibson. They are expensive, arguably oversell themselves, and any criticism is magnified by pre-existing suspicion.

Anyway, I hope you all find the bridge you are looking for. I'm happy to know that while I resent the cost, I do like Masterys, so I know that there is a bridge out there for me that will make me happy if and when I can afford it. I would be pretty grumpy if I didn't have that going for me.

[mizbiz]

I've been thinking we should have a thread where we bounce ideas around and consolidate all of the scattered knowledge to come up with some alternatives. I'll start.

Here's something I've been playing around with the last few days:

3D printed saddles that use import bridge screw spacing, but are designed for 52mm string spacing and 9.5" radius. The string slot and screws get a slight offset helping to alleviate the screw fouling the string. After printing, they would just need to be tapped for the screws. I have a set of the 1st type being printed now. Then, I realized there was no reason for the saddles to be round, so I drew up the second version to lower the cost and give greater range for intonation.

Man, these look fantastic! I think this is an amazing concept that could essentially resolve the issue if we could collectively figure out how to source them and the other plastic/nylon bushings and washers necessary to replicate the Staytrem in a cost efficient manner! Bravo ThePearDream!

[Unicorn Warrior]

I've been thinking we should have a thread where we bounce ideas around and consolidate all of the scattered knowledge to come up with some alternatives. I'll start.

Here's something I've been playing around with the last few days:

3D printed saddles that use import bridge screw spacing, but are designed for 52mm string spacing and 9.5" radius. The string slot and screws get a slight offset helping to alleviate the screw fouling the string. After printing, they would just need to be tapped for the screws. I have a set of the 1st type being printed now. Then, I realized there was no reason for the saddles to be round, so I drew up the second version to lower the cost and give greater range for intonation.

This does seem worthwhile. When you say foul the string, do you mean run into the string?

[mackerelmint]

Megan is the only hope.

I guess I'm the offset bridge Obi-Wan?

Well, I've been researching this for a while. I won't have the money to buy a lathe for a couple months yet, but once I do you can be sure I'll be turning out saddles. I've been considering tooling and jigs and whatnot to make it as efficient and easy as I can, and I think I have some good ideas about best practices there. Basically to start with I'm thinking I'd make mustang saddles to suit stock bridges. 9.5 or 7.25, brass or stainless. 52mm string spread.
That seems like plenty of variety for a start. I have other ideas for saddles in terms of shape/resonance and whatnot, but one step at a time.

[mizbiz]

I think it could be done relatively easy if these saddle designs were accessible to us...

1. Import Aftermarket Mustang Bridge
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Chrome-Guitar ... wu4BV4U6B

2. Flanged Nylon Bushings in Top of Thimbles
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Packs-of-10-M ... 481731718

3. Nylon Washers in Place of Springs
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nylon-ABS-Rou ... 698634570

4. Nylon Bushings on the Post Screws
Haven’t found a source for these just yet, but I’m sure they can be found with the correct measurements of the aftermarket bridge. Also, the flanged nylon bushings in the top of the thimbles (#2 above) would have the same desired effect of rendering the bridge as non-rocking.

....I hope Jess Loureiro doesn’t catch wind of this!

[eldredjames]

H use a squier mustang bridge that i got on ebay last month for $9.25. Along with a neck shim, the guitar plays perfect with no buzzing.
Jim