We need a new Bridge Champion

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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mackerelmint
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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by mackerelmint » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:17 pm

I wonder if the increased hardness of the stainless would negate any advantages of having less material to tap, and I also wonder if the triangular profile might make hard to get threaded straight, which would also increase likelihood of a broken tap.

I've given up on the idea of stainless, personally. I think nickel plating mild steel would be a more practical way to protect the saddles from corrosion, even though it's an extra step.
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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by ThePearDream » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:36 pm

mackerelmint wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:17 pm
I wonder if the increased hardness of the stainless would negate any advantages of having less material to tap, and I also wonder if the triangular profile might make hard to get threaded straight, which would also increase likelihood of a broken tap.

I've given up on the idea of stainless, personally. I think nickel plating mild steel would be a more practical way to protect the saddles from corrosion, even though it's an extra step.
You are right about the stainless steel. I looked at the material options through the other service (Sculpteo) and I can get this latest design done in nickel plated steel/bronze for about $26 with shipping. That's half the cost of the round ones from Shapeways. The triangular shape doesn't concern me. It's a right triangle, so I know that the back edge is perpendicular to the hole.

I'm not too hung up on stainless either, or recreating the staytrem for that matter. I'd be perfectly happy with adjustable saddles as long the bits were machined to a close enough tolerance that the screws wouldn't loosen up on their own, there weren't any weird gaps, and the string spacing was right. Basically, I just want a better made version of the Squier modified mustang with 52mm string spacing.

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by mackerelmint » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:41 pm

Ah, ok. I got the impression from the picture that it was more of an isoscolescent type of triangle.

So is that $26 for a whole set, or is that per saddle?

I'm pretty much the same as you, I just wanna make saddles with a 52mm spread that people can drop into the stock bridge, and a gizmo to lock the bridge in place for people who want that. Reinventing the wheel just isn't that interesting.
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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by timtam » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:45 pm

mackerelmint wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:41 pm
I got the impression from the picture that it was more of an isoscolescent type of triangle.
Google says 'Did you mean: obsolescent or isosceles cat' ? :)

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by ThePearDream » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:48 pm

That's the price for a set. Assuming this new service does a good job, and I can tap them okay, I'll be pretty happy with $26.

I did buy some 9¢ nylon washers from my local hardware store and was able to hand thread them onto the bridge height screws. It really firmed things up, but I haven't tested it out on a guitar yet. I thought it was worth a try for 18¢.

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by jvin248 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:52 pm

.

If you are breaking taps ... the main variables are technique and what diameter hole you drilled. Technique is just practice, no way around that (quarter turn cut, back off to break the chip, another quarter turn cut, back off, and repeat all the way through). Diameter of the drill bit is critical for taping and look up a table online or an old Machinery's Handbook to get you started. Don't rely on the 3D printing to 'get you close'.

also, use your CAD package and lay out 7.5, 9.5, and 12 inch radius circles, make a cube 52mm long, and bring the arcs down to that cube so you see the radius for a bridge. There is barely any difference between them (yes, the Internet goes crazy sorting between them) but they are very similar; 9.5 to 7.5 crown to crown is 0.4mm or 0.016inch while 9.5 to 12 is 0.3mm or 0.012inch. Quite likely that a mixup at 'the factory' will happen frequently or users installing them when given a choice between two sets in a package.

The Mastery saddles have such large arcs cut in them (and noted some still get strings popping out) but they are designed to handle thin to thick rope strings. JMs out of all the guitar models used get the biggest strings put on them 'for tone'. You may need set proliferation more for string upsize projects than for neck radius.

As another bridge to consider for design research, there is the PRS Vela. It's not a retrofit candidate but similar to Mastery.

Image

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by ThePearDream » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:40 pm

I appreciate the tapping adivice. I definitely have the right size hole (I drilled out the 3d printed hole with the appropriate size drill bit), and have been going nice and slow with plenty of cutting oil as well. I believe my issue is from the small tap size being a bit delicate, combined with not having a dedicated tapping fixture to keep everything steady.

Not only is the difference in radius so slight at the bridge - but, a 9.5" radius neck is only 9.5" at the fretboard. Once you account for frets and string height, you are looking at more like a 9.75-10" string radius. As I mentioned earlier, my preference would be for adjustable height saddles rather than fixed height, but I'm clearly not ready to tap 18 holes yet. I personally don't care if my saddles are at an exact, precise radius. I'd rather have full control over individual saddle height (and intonation) so I can adjust to suit each particular guitar. Mastery bridges and the like are simply a non-starter for me, regardless of how well they're made.

Something I might look at while i wait for my new saddles to be printed, is to redrill intonation screw holes to fit a set of 6 tele saddles (with the offset intonation screws).

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by mackerelmint » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:26 pm

timtam wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:45 pm
mackerelmint wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:41 pm
I got the impression from the picture that it was more of an isoscolescent type of triangle.
Google says 'Did you mean: obsolescent or isosceles cat' ? :)
Google's way behind. I've been using "isoscelescent" for years now.
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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by mackerelmint » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:27 pm

ThePearDream wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:48 pm
That's the price for a set. Assuming this new service does a good job, and I can tap them okay, I'll be pretty happy with $26.

I did buy some 9¢ nylon washers from my local hardware store and was able to hand thread them onto the bridge height screws. It really firmed things up, but I haven't tested it out on a guitar yet. I thought it was worth a try for 18¢.
Well, shit. That's tough to beat. I'll buy a set at that price if they're good.
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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by Deed_Poll » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:28 pm

I've been wanting to do something like a PRS Wraparound on spikes... We'll see if I get anywhere!

I like the idea of an unintonable offset bridge. I figure overall intonation adjustment isn't strictly necessary since it's a rocking bridge anyway, so has that degree of flexibility built in...

Work on my own vibrato is coming along quite nicely! I'll post on it when it's ready.

Cheers!

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:38 pm

Deed_Poll wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:28 pm
I've been wanting to do something like a PRS Wraparound on spikes... We'll see if I get anywhere!

I like the idea of an unintonable offset bridge. I figure overall intonation adjustment isn't strictly necessary since it's a rocking bridge anyway, so has that degree of flexibility built in...

Work on my own vibrato is coming along quite nicely! I'll post on it when it's ready.

Cheers!
Yes! Mr Poll. Yes!!!

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Re: We need a new Bridge Champion

Post by arkivel » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:22 pm

I think the main advantage of the Mastery is that it is machined out of brass, fine polished, and then plated with hard chrome. The staytrem does not have finely polished saddle grooves and this is why its not a good idea to fix the posts.

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