Why does Fender use bad Tort?

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tdizzle
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Re: Why does Fender use bad Tort?

Post by tdizzle » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:51 am

I read an article a few years ago that asserted that most tortoise comes from one, or very small number of sources and the main use of it is for eye glass frames. Most people don't care how pre-CBS their glasses look, so pickguards fell pretty low on the pole. So, there just isn't a good source of it. They can't make them like they used to because of the toxic nature of the material. I'll try to find that article.
Last edited by tdizzle on Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why does Fender use bad Tort?

Post by Gonkulator » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:44 am

Because they don't care really. The crap they have been using for years seems to appease the general public, especially on their CS models.

That being said, the CS is definitely missing an opportunity by not making their own or teaming up with Mark to get his tort on their CS or Master Built creations.

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Re: Why does Fender use bad Tort?

Post by Fuzzbuzz » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:23 am

So the original question remains, WHY does fender use bad tort? I’m sure they care, but I would imagine it’s more cost over aesthetic. They certainly aren’t selling fewer guitars because of it. If anything, it leaves the tort market wide open for somebody who does care. Although I’m certain once a person starts mixing liquid and hardens authentic tort guards and tries to sell them for $250 the majority of the people who scoff at printed tort will scoff at that price tag!

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Re: Why does Fender use bad Tort?

Post by leokula » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:35 am

Fuzzbuzz wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:23 am
So the original question remains, WHY does fender use bad tort?
Gonkulator wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:44 am
Because they don't care really. The crap they have been using for years seems to appease the general public, especially on their CS models.
There you go. We in this forum are definitely in the absolute minority who obsesses about tort, and even then not everybody in here really gives a shit.

Also when you are getting a CS, I know some may argue "hey I want the best of the best in every detail", but most don't care about the pickguard that much. Out of all the parts in the guitar you have to admit it's probably the less important one and doesn't affect tone or playability at all.
Jaguar > Jazzmaster :)

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Re: Why does Fender use bad Tort?

Post by Gonkulator » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:59 am

Fuzzbuzz wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:23 am
Although I’m certain once a person starts mixing liquid and hardens authentic tort guards and tries to sell them for $250 the majority of the people who scoff at printed tort will scoff at that price tag!
Spitfire already does that. Some people do scoff at the price tag while others will throw down the money to have it because vintage tort is typically shrunken/warped/cracked and once again rising in price. A lot of builders use his tort on their guitars and the results are stunning and well worth it.

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Re: Why does Fender use bad Tort?

Post by helvetg » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:03 am

Fuzzbuzz wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:23 am
Although I’m certain once a person starts mixing liquid and hardens authentic tort guards
Legitimately naive and curious here, is that how "real" tort is made? I thought all tort was just printed on. Do they have a How It's Made on tort pickguards?

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Re: Why does Fender use bad Tort?

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:24 am

Yes, we are in the minority. But once you know about good Tort, you can't un-know about good tort. The reason why no one else cares is because they don't know to care.

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Re: Why does Fender use bad Tort?

Post by SAVEStheDAY » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:42 am

For the most part I'm okay with what they offer. I feel like today's fake stuff is close enough to the original fake stuff, which still wasn't super close to the real thing.

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Re: Why does Fender use bad Tort?

Post by Fuzzbuzz » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:14 am

helvetg wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:03 am
Fuzzbuzz wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:23 am
Although I’m certain once a person starts mixing liquid and hardens authentic tort guards
Legitimately naive and curious here, is that how "real" tort is made? I thought all tort was just printed on. Do they have a How It's Made on tort pickguards?
It is. At least that is how the original Celluloid guards were made for fender from 59 to about 70. It’s a combination of chemicals mixed together and hardened.

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Re: Why does Fender use bad Tort?

Post by amv » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:08 am

tdizzle wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:51 am
Most people don't care how pre-CBS their glasses look...
Lol.

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Re: Why does Fender use bad Tort?

Post by Mechanical Birds » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:16 am

dinosaurkale-> wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:38 am
ummm...cause its cheap !?
Surprised it took this long for someone to nail it up here ;)

I asked Spitfire about this once with the thought of like - OK, I represent whatever division at fender is responsible for talent recruitment. If that’s me, there is zero chance I wouldn’t know who spitfire was or what they were doing, also me - I would do everything I could to hire him to be an official Fender employee. Make a big thing out of it with videos and all the shit they normally do, you know how the marketing would be - “we just got even closer” “uncovering artesinal secrets that seemed to be lost forever” whatever? Make a video about the old stuff and where it came from and how it was made and how modern stuff doesn’t match up and the reasons why, from chemical availability, whatever, just tell the story. Talk about how it was this beautiful part of the guitar that was dropped somewhere along the way and never truly replicated, so people started (like with everything else) parting out guitars and the prices on the guards became unattainable for a lot of people, and talk about how it disintegrates or whatever so there are fewer and fewer all the time. So fender was using what it was using but never really getting it right, and then enters mark. He talks about what drew him to it, how he decided to make his own, his trials and errors, how it came out and how he got better and closer all the time and started selling them and now he’s happy to be at fender or whatever then shots of him with the custom shop guys looking at guitars with his infinitely better product on them compared to original examples and modern mass produced stuff, etc.

Sorry that probably comes off as some movie producer jagoff thing but I would die to see it and it just makes TOO MUCH SENSE RIGHT?!

Well I asked Mr. Spitfire about this once and he bluntly pointed out that Fender is a corporation and that their guard material isn’t made in house anyway, and they buy large quantities for real cheap which is something they couldn’t do from him. Makes perfect sense if you think about the guards in the same vein as the screws or tuners or whatever - just a part of a guitar that they assemble using said already-produced parts to make something that is only wholly fender once assembled but in all its pieces has several parts that aren’t in any way manufactured by Fender.

I don’t know how Mark would feel to get a job offer, like obviously it would depend on a lot w/r/t his personal situation and compensation and stuff but like, it seems like (with no knowledge of his revenue from spitfire as a business or what fender pays for their sheets of guard material) they could afford to make him really happy, and in turn start using his amazing material on more guitars and offer it as an upgrade that’s already proven to be highly desirable. I keep saying it but, it just makes sense.

It’s about the only way I see it working on a large scale. Because of what I mentioned Mark saying, and his output abilities (I’d assume) some goofy licensing thing wouldn’t work at all. I COULD see it working as strictly a custom shop thing though. Someone mentioned paying $4,000 for a guitar with their modern tort being offensive and they’re right, that’s just maddening. Would they be willing to offer spitfire on a custom shop model? There’s obviously. I thing stopping one from ordering their own guard and putting it on after, but I have to say that it would honestly be really, genuinely pleasing to see Fender offer it stock on AT LEAST custom shop models (truthfully should be offered on AV/AO/WHATEVER true reissues too, but custom shop would be an incredible start.

TL;DR - I think yeah it just comes down to the fact that they can get a bunch of their shit for cheap and marks stuff comes one by one or whatever if they’re just ordering it from him and lol forever and ever holy shit at his work being cheap in any way.

TL;DR - FENDER JUST HIRE SPITFIRE AND DO THE COOL ROLLOUT THING WITH NEW TORT EVERYONE WILL LOVE AND RESPECT YOU LITERALLY NOT ONE SINGKE PERSON COULD COMPLAIN AND IT WILL ONLY RESULT IN UNIVERSAL PRAISE AND MOST IMPORTANTLY FOR YOU WILL GIVE YOU PLENTY OF CHANCES TO USE COOL MARKETING JARGON ABOUT BRINGING THIS GUY IN TO TURN YR GUITARS FROM GREAT PLAYING AND SOUNDING INSTRUMENTS INTO THE BEST LOOKING GUITARS ON THE PLANET PERIOD OK I AM DONE SORRY


I think about shit like this a lot. Really wanna see that video I described haha

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Re: Why does Fender use bad Tort?

Post by Mechanical Birds » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:22 am

tribi9 wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:21 pm
Unicorn Warrior wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:10 pm
I mostly disagree with HNBs example of good Tort. While good tort does look more liquid, I attribute good Tort to that of guitars during the 60s

Spitfire is close. His latest batches have been the closest thing that compares

I do too. I dont think SneakyT's look any better than other crappy/normal tort out there.

Only Vintage or Spitfire look good to me. Oh and I think it was Mackarelmint that got a guard cut by SneakyT. It was some really good looking tort. Cant remember where it came from but i dont think is available anywhere or anymore?
Mackeralmint will you PLEASE post a pic of this guard if this poster is right? Been thinking about jumping on a cheaper but still ‘real’ guard from sneakyT but would like to see examples if possible. Thanks!

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Re: Why does Fender use bad Tort?

Post by Mechanical Birds » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:29 am

leokula wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:35 am
Fuzzbuzz wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:23 am
So the original question remains, WHY does fender use bad tort?
Gonkulator wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:44 am
Because they don't care really. The crap they have been using for years seems to appease the general public, especially on their CS models.
There you go. We in this forum are definitely in the absolute minority who obsesses about tort, and even then not everybody in here really gives a shit.

Also when you are getting a CS, I know some may argue "hey I want the best of the best in every detail", but most don't care about the pickguard that much. Out of all the parts in the guitar you have to admit it's probably the less important one and doesn't affect tone or playability at all.
But also wouldn’t you agree that a huge part of the allure with custom shop is aesthetic stuff? Like I’m never gonna be able to buy a $10,000 guitar or whatever anyway, but if I was, a huge part about me doing so would be aesthetics. I don’t think there’s be many people say they own a custom shop or were seeking one out because of how they sound ya know what I mean?

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Re: Why does Fender use bad Tort?

Post by Drewbertca » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:16 pm

I like the tort on my PSVI.... :ph34r:

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Re: Why does Fender use bad Tort?

Post by marqueemoon » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:04 pm

I think the Fenderparts tort guards look pretty good in pictures, but I’ve never seen one in person.

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