differences between 60th 58' and avri 65?

[deluxejazzmaster]

Yes there are some obvious visual differences but do they sound any different? I love my 65 avri and might have an opportunity to swap out some gear and end up with either another jazzmaster (that particular one) or a 57 pro amp. I already have a great sounding deluxe reverb... so I guess I am trying to make a choice of which I would like. the differences in these guitars comes down to the wood being used (58 uses ash and the 65 uses alder) and the material of the pickguard. how much would those things effect the sound if at all. I know the pickups are the same (but then again, so were the original 58's and 65's according to some research- some one might chime in).

anyone have both and can give a comparison? I am really into playing Jazzmasters these days but having two might be redundant if they are essentially the same guitar.

Thanks ahead of time.

[sunburster]

Check out this video which compares the American Pro, 58 and 65.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-s6jgCzKF8&t=

They definitely all sound different and I think the 58 sounds the best (the American Pro the worst).

[deluxejazzmaster]

Thank you- maybe it IS the ash and pick guard.

[sunburster]

An anodized pickguard certainly does affect the sound. I've noticed this more than once.

[BobL]

I played several thin skin AVRI '65's and a 60th '58 down at Wildwood last month before finally going with one of the '65s. They all sounded good... they all sounded different. I couldn't say that the '58 sounded any more different from the '65 I ended up getting than the other '65s did, or really point to it having a fundamentally different tone... I think it comes down more to individual instruments than any big differences in the models, imho. Mileage may vary.

My thread at the time: http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/vie ... &p=1506385

[deluxejazzmaster]

useful insight. thanks for the direction. once again, I am slimming my herd of gear (a vibe-king stack, avri jaguar and a pf-20t bass head) to make room in my house.... keeping my jazzmaster and either getting a second one (as mentioned in the header) or getting a second smaller amp (57 pro amp)... thinking of it as a reward for trying to unload the unused stuff.... i am really digging the results of the avri 65 i have so thanks for the input (and please keep it coming).

[Marc]

I watched the "N Stuff" demo on YT of the '58 and it looks and sounds impressive. I'm not sure if they voiced the pickups as per the earlier black bobbin specs or used the '65 grey bobbins but I would say it does have the sound of the early model for sure. Ash will make a big difference with scooped mids and the metal guard is widely considered to also affect the tone. It looks like they did a great job. If I had $$$ I would get one. I would change to white pickup covers and White Strat knobs to make it a non prototype if it was me! Good to see they put the proper trem on as well and not the one without the lock.

Just looked at the Wildwood inventory as they give a lot of detailed specs over each guitar in stock. The '58 neck shape isn't really in keeping with what I would expect for those early years... The thinnest is .81 at the first fret and others are .82 and .83 so they are more or less the same as the '65s which actually are accurate. Seems as if Fender are continuing with their 'real men like big necks so let's make everything medium/large' obsession. Disappointing.

Weight wise they are around 8.5ibs which is heavier than the '65s. This is the ash body and indicates that they haven't selected particularly light body blanks as swamp ash can be very light. I had a '57 reissue Strat blonde over ash and that was featherweight... And bright!

Pickups - they are being a bit vague there saying 'classic vintage' so would be surprised if they are true early black bobbin specs but that is easily remedied.

So I would say they are nice but don't expect a full early ear JM super light guitar with a skinny neck experience... You would have been to go with a NOS Custom Shop model for that...and even then I don't know if they did a slim neck.

[timtam]

Pickups - they are being a bit vague there saying 'classic vintage' so would be surprised if they are true early black bobbin specs but that is easily remedied.

Sales blurb does say the 60th anniv 58 has Pure Vintage 65's.
https://shop.fender.com/en-AU/electric- ... l?rl=en_US

The pickup part numbers are different though between AVRI 65 and 60th anniv 58 ...
eg
60th 58
PICKUP ASSY JAZZMASTER BRIDGE BLK 0077032000

AVRI 65
PICKUP ASSY 65 JAZZMASTER BRIDGE VINT WHT 0094012000

So I guess it's just the black covers that makes them different ?

[deluxejazzmaster]

Well, it looks like that guitar is no longer available via Fender.com and might be more of a consideration when deciding to get one. there is a great video that compares the differences between the years of Jazzmasters that talks about the electronics and pickups essentially not changing over the years since its inception so if that is the case then the use of 65's (which are as close to originals as they are going to come according to the literature that hyped them when the 65 came out). see video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rit7UEjmC4E

so if this is the case then the sound would come down to the material of pick guard and the type of wood effecting the sound both addressed up above.

[deluxejazzmaster]

Once again, thanks for the collective input. I couldn't justify having another guitar that sounded an awful lot like the one I already play so I am the proud owner of Fender 57 Custom Pro instead. I am moving in a jazz direction and this will help with that fancy (My other guitar is a Airline R.J. Signature Tuxedo) so between the Jazzy, my 64 Custom Deluxe Reverb, 57 Pro and the hollow body there's a lot of ground covered (even without using pedals).

All the same, thanks!

[Marc]

Well, it looks like that guitar is no longer available via Fender.com and might be more of a consideration when deciding to get one. there is a great video that compares the differences between the years of Jazzmasters that talks about the electronics and pickups essentially not changing over the years since its inception so if that is the case then the use of 65's (which are as close to originals as they are going to come according to the literature that hyped them when the 65 came out). see video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rit7UEjmC4E

so if this is the case then the sound would come down to the material of pick guard and the type of wood effecting the sound both addressed up above.

The spec of the pickups did change over the years: there were essentially 3 eras :

58 to early 64 - black bobbin type
Early 64 to around 66 - grey bobbin
66 onwards - grey bobbin CBS
Possibly it changed again in 70s but not sure

They were different due to the type of wire, number of turns. Not sure if the magnet type changed also but did sound very different. The videos claim that they were largely unchanged isn't really correct.