American Original vs. AVRI 'Thin Skin' Jazzmasters... my impressions

[BobL]

I had to take a load of 10 year olds to hockey camp on Monday in Colorado, so with most of a day to kill, I went down to Wildwood in Louisville and played Jazzmasters and Jags, including two of their 'Thin Skin' American Vintage '65 JMs, an American Original JM, a 60th Anniversary '58 JM, an American Original Jaguar, and a CS Jaguar.

First off, they were all very well made, beautiful guitars. I was down there a month or so ago shopping for a replacement for my 335 (ended up with a Gretsch CS 6128T) and I played a bunch of Gretsch and Gibson hollows/semi hollows. All the Gretsch stuff, US or Japanese, was first rate, and the Gibson stuff (ES-330s) was super disappointing in terms of fit/finish. Finish felt very thick and plasticy, there were obvious binding scrape marks going off into the finish, one had a big ridge between the neck binding and the neck finish... I was not impressed with the quality from Gibson Memphis (though my 335 was pretty decent), especially for $3000+ guitars.

I say that just to point out how night-and-day the upper end Fender USA stuff is by comparison. Finishes were all thin feeling, gorgeous, no discernible issues. Comfortable necks, nice rosewood boards... across the line, just quality stuff.

I think there is something to be said for the 'Thin Skin' guitars - the ones I played were my favorites of the bunch and amplified seemed very open and clear. With the volume and tone both rolled off to about 8 they all seemed to hit a sweet spot with good clarity when clean, and crunch if overdriven. I guess from what I understand the pickups are the same in both the AVRI and American Original models, but each guitar was very distinct. Feel wise, they were similar, but I'd say the 'Thin Skin' models had slightly nicer 'hand' to me. The neck on the AO guitar felt a little bit wider than the AV guitars, and maybe had broader shoulders on the neck profile that contributed to that. Neck on the 60th was unbound, felt nice...

I think of the 4 guitars I played, 4 different guys would go in there and each declare a different one the 'best' of the bunch - there were no stinkers across the line, just subtle variances. I would convince myself that one sounded 'best', then pick up another and think it sounded better - I still feel hard pressed about which one to pick (though I do think I will end up giving them a call and buying one). Prices were about even, all said. I think in the end I preferred one of the 'Thin Skin' guitars, but I think I'd be happy with any of them.

The Jags sounded great - I didn't like the controls, and preferred the scale and feel of the JMs, but the Jags might've had a slight edge in the sound of the pickups to my ears. AO Jag was of a similar quality to the JMs, and the CS Jag was of course a step up... though not as big of one as you might think.

Anyway... thought I'd pass my impressions along. They seem to be doing a great job on all of these!

[sirspens]

Thanks for the review! It's good to hear good things about the American Original series. I think it is a good replacement for the AVRI without having to worry about offending nostalgia with the slightest thing that isn't vintage spec. (I've grown tired of guitars designed for Baby Boomer Wall Hangers. Let Gibson do that, and charge 3 times as much for it.)

[B]

I really had zero intentions of purchasing an American Original Jazzmaster until we got our first one in at our shop when they first released.

I already had 3 Jazzmasters (AVRI, 62 Thin Skin and a partsbuilt) in various configurations and all were outstanding guitars. But the new American Original I purchased was SO MUCH of a better feeling of a guitar I immediately bought it. And this was direct from Fender, pulled brand new from the box, before my mandatory 6-hour-super-nerdout-setup procedure I do to all of my guitars. The neck profile is certainly different than all of my others (including two AV65s I used to own that never really clicked with me).

I almost think the combination of the 9.5 radius, fret size and this neck profile seem to all "gel together" to make a better feeling neck as a whole (to me). And I felt overall it was simply a magic formula of specs that all clicked together... The neck profile, fret size, fretboard radius, extra degree of neck pitch, original electronic layout, thin nitro finish (that actually felt fully hardened), and it's weight (7.9 lbs).

It was so perfect in fact that I sold 2 of my other Jazzmasters and purchased another AO from Reverb as a backup (which I sold because it was somewhat of an impulse purchase I really didn't have to have). But that one too felt and played just as good. Another thing that I noticed is that both AO guitars had this solid, consistent, "alive" quality when you strum a chord where the guitar vibrates evenly and consistently from the body all the way to the tip of the headstock. MUCH more than the other JMs I owned, which I always thought felt pretty good in that regard, but nothing even close to approaching the AOs. Not sure exactly what aspects contribute to that quality, but it was definitely there and something I have always felt made for a more musical instrument.

I am not one to make posts gushing on about my guitars because every player out there is looking for something different. But now that the new has worn off and the honeymoon phase is over, the aspects of it that grabbed my attention are now fully appreciated in context, and the wow factor is very much still there for me. I've owned just over 40 different JMs since the 90s from every era, and this is one is a dead tie with a vintage model I once owned as the best Jazzmaster I have ever played.

[green_mario]

The neck profile is certainly different than all of my others (including two AV65s I used to own that never really clicked with me).

Would you say the neck on the AO was slimmer than the AV65 necks? Maybe closer in "thickness" to a Classic Lacquer 60s?

Also, maybe too early to tell, but how has the finish held up on the AO? From what I've read on here, the AV65 finish is still the easiest to wear (dings, scrapes, chips, dents). I am looking for something that will relic and age over time.

Hope this wasn't too much of a derail.. thanks!

[marqueemoon]

The AO neck shape is really nice and they sound great. The only real miss is the shitty tort Fender puts on all their guitars. I could be very happy with the Ocean Turquoise with a nice aftermarket mint guard.

The GAS is strong, but the bank account is weak. I've also told myself I'm not buying another JM unless there's an actual musical need for one, and right now there isn't.

[wooderson]

I wish Fender hadn't cheaped out on the AOs with no matching headstocks.

[B]

The neck profile is certainly different than all of my others (including two AV65s I used to own that never really clicked with me).

Would you say the neck on the AO was slimmer than the AV65 necks? Maybe closer in "thickness" to a Classic Lacquer 60s?

Also, maybe too early to tell, but how has the finish held up on the AO? From what I've read on here, the AV65 finish is still the easiest to wear (dings, scrapes, chips, dents). I am looking for something that will relic and age over time.

Hope this wasn't too much of a derail.. thanks!

The neck feels slightly fuller than my Thin Skin 62, and slightly less deep than my AV65s did around the 1-5 areas, becoming much like the AV65s the closer you get to the 12th. Fuller than a Classic 60s. Broader shoulders... Like it wants to very slightly lean towards a "D" profile, but not quite. Honestly, my best description would be "Imagine a 25.5 scale Johnny Marr neck", but even that doesn't fully describe it. Also keep in mind a radius change on any neck will alter the overall feel of the neck as a whole, as well as factors like neck angle in relation to the body, fretboard edge sharpness, how the frets are finished off on the ends, etc. To me it is the most perfect all around neck I've had on a Jazzmaster... Just a feeling that all of the slight (and we are talking slight) spec tweaks were well thought out in regards to how they work with each other. Whether that was going through the minds of Fender when they were designed, who knows. If you thought the AVRIs were too thin and the AV65s were too bloated and unrefined this may be to your liking. The bone nut on every example I've seen is incredibly well done... Everything looks (and measures) incredibly precise.

As far as the finishes, they are like the original Thin Skins from back in 2006-2009, possibly a HAIR thinner (thinner uncoat/sealing maybe?). Some original 62 AVRI finishes (color coat and sealer/primer/whatever) seemed a bit heavy handed on the application. These are definitely thinner than those. The AV65s "flash coat" finishes were ridiculously thin... The AO finishes are definitely not that flash coat technique. Or if it is, they've refined the process. Best way I can describe the finish is "vintage correct". Not thick by any means, much more attention to detail than the AVRIs. The most noticeable thing is that the finishes look and feel "completed". Whatever the hell Fender has been doing with nitro finishes the past several years (wavy, sticky, VERY soft/not fully hardened/press into it with your fingernail) is definitely gone (thank God). They DO NOT look or feel like a rush job (think white Johnny Marr Jags). Like they finally "figured it out". I have absolutely zero complaints about the finishes in any way now... They look and feel like a proper lacquer finish and will no doubt wear (or protect) like one.

The AO neck shape is really nice and they sound great. The only real miss is the shitty tort Fender puts on all their guitars. I could be very happy with the Ocean Turquoise with a nice aftermarket mint guard.

The wide edge bevel is still there, but the brown tort?... Yeah, a bit bland. I will say that the brown tort on white looks pretty sharp... A bit lackluster on the Turquoise and sunburstfor sure. Kaiser shield plate is still used under the pickguards, copper shielding in the cavities is the same as the AV65s. Wiring is all clean, routed and taped, like what you'd see if you opened up a vintage JM.

Included G&G cases are the newer design with the crushed interior and the larger storage compartment that fully supports the entire length of the neck, which is a nice improvement IMO.

The edge radius of the body is vintage correct and properly rounded/refined and makes the whole body shape look more "organic" and less flattened out, "cut from a slab of wood" looking (look at the flat sides on any MJT body... so unattractive). I'm a sexy curves kind of guy.

[BobL]

Those AO finishes have a poly basecoat with lacquer over it (70's style, I guess), which probably explains differences in look.

[B]

Those AO finishes have a poly basecoat with lacquer over it (70's style, I guess), which probably explains differences in look.

It was my understanding that has been the norm for quite some time (a poly type sealer before the lacquer color coats).

[BobL]

Those AO finishes have a poly basecoat with lacquer over it (70's style, I guess), which probably explains differences in look.

It was my understanding that has been the norm for quite some time (a poly type sealer before the lacquer color coats).

Maybe for the regular AVRIs? The 'thin skin' ones don't have any poly undercoat, anyway - confirmed when I was at Wildwood.

Curious if any AVRI '62s were made w/ 9.5" radius necks - anyone know? If I could find something where the neck wasn't too small (so .82 and up-ish?) and unbound w/ a 9.5" radius, I'd be pretty interested.

[B]

Maybe for the regular AVRIs? The 'thin skin' ones don't have any poly undercoat, anyway - confirmed when I was at Wildwood.

Curious if any AVRI '62s were made w/ 9.5" radius necks - anyone know? If I could find something where the neck wasn't too small (so .82 and up-ish?) and unbound w/ a 9.5" radius, I'd be pretty interested.

A 62 AVRI Thin Skin with a 9.5 might just be what you are looking for... The original run from the mid 2000s. Unbound necks... They were basically 62 AVRIs with a thinner finish, 9.5 radius, 6105 frets and what felt like slightly fuller necks (still c shaped but slightly deeper in the cowboy chord area compared to the AVRIs we also had in at the time). The neck differences were fairly subtle from the standard AVRIs but every Thin Skin we sold had a first fret depth bigger than the standard AVRI models also in our shop. I know this because we would post the neck thicknesses for each individual guitar. One of these might be just what you are looking for... They're outstanding guitars.

Interested as to when/if a change on the Thin Skin finishes took place. I'm assuming that the newer bound neck Thin Skin models that coincided with the AV65s share that same flash coat process. FWIW I worked for one of the 3 dealers who brought the Thin Skin Fenders to the market and we were heavily involved in the development of them. Fender's official stance on them (at the time) was that the color finish was "100% lacquer, but primers and base coats may not apply as they are not technically considered part of finish process". I fielded so many calls on this issue at the time that I asked Fender for clarification. What I was told is that "The finishes represent era specific techniques as they were historically applied. A 54 Stratocaster for instance would not have the same sealers applied that a 60's era Jaguar would have. Sealing and priming is part of the body construction processes and not the finishing process." Interpret that explanation however you wish.

We did chemically strip a 2007 62 Thin Skin once and it very quickly removed the color coat down to a sealer, which remained virtually untouched by the chemicals. I think I posted photos of this many years ago on here. So I know that the first original run of Thin Skins we had made used the same process as the original AVRIs did, only the application was much thinner in regards to the entire process.

Honestly I couldn't care less. We did some very extensive testing of finish impact on tonewoods and found that thickness and hardness are really the main factors. By that rationale, I would take whatever poly finish process Rickenbacker uses over about anything on the market if sound quality was my primary concern.... Stupid thin and stupid hard. If a quickly aged look was my primary concern, the AV65 flash coat process would be the best bet, as those seemed to wear out just by looking at them, haha.

It's also important to remember that the "Thin Skin" idea (or thinner finishes in general) was partially an answer to a problem that really isn't as prevalent these days. 90's/early 2000s American Standards, Mexican and Japanese Fenders, imported Korean guitars (especially)... They all used polyurethane as finishes and they all were EXTREMELY heavily applied at the time. Take a chip of finish from a 90s era Epiphone or a early MIJ Jazzmaster... That shit was was pushing 1/16th of an inch thick and often times you could take that chip and BEND it in half without it snapping... It was like a softer plastic shell or like there was not enough hardener in the mix. This absolutely results in a sonically dead piece of tonewood. This was also the height of the vintage guitar boom, so there was a big push to research every little aspect of vintage guitars to figure out how that original tonal magic was lost (real or perceived). The relic/worn out thing was just becoming fashionable and newer instrument finishes were made to be practically bullet proof, so naturally the finishing process was put under closer inspection and played with in order to appeal to the consumer mindset of the time.

In 2018 those uber-thick finishes are mostly gone (except for some of those new Korean D'Angelicos, who apparently didn't get the memo from last decade.) Add in the internet's "bullshit magnification factor", where hair-splitting details and half truths are given far more importance than they deserve, and it's a wonder anybody is satisfied with any guitar purchased today.

My main point in mentioning the finish on the AOs was just to highlight the fact that they are thin and are fully cured and look and feel great. Something I was fearing Fender forgot how to do with a lacquer finish. They could seal and finish their woods with unicorn jizz for all I care as long as it's thin and hard and has a nice feel to it.

[Despot]

But the new American Original I purchased was SO MUCH of a better feeling of a guitar I immediately bought it.

I have a theory about this - and it's pure conjecture, but ... here it is.

I owned a first run American Vintage '65 Jazzmaster. One of the first year's production in Aztec Gold. That guitar was, hands down, the lightest, most vibrant and fantastic new Fender guitar I'd ever played. By a considerable margin. Custom shop, limited run ... whatever, that '65 AV was great. It got replaced by a really really great '66 Jazzmaster that sounded better amplified. But that AV was so close ... so so close to that really great '66.

I played a lot of those first run JMs - I even tested/shipped another Aztec Gold JM for a forumite as a 'cut out' between him and the seller in Ireland - equally great guitar (hi Florian).

But recently I tried some of the later production run - the Oly White Jazzmasters - and while they're good guitars, they lack something that those gold Jazzmasters had - they're heavier and not quite as loud unplugged.

So here's my theory - the first run of a new model from Fender is made using the best wood they can find. It makes sense - if you get really strong word of mouth on a model by making sure that those first guitars to get to stores and into players hands are really a cut above the rest then you're positioned the model well - after that if you aren't as picky about wood weight etc ... it doesn't really matter. The reputation has been made.

So now we have the AO - another new model. I tried one last weekend ... and you know what ... it was very very similar to that old gold Jazzmaster that I had.

Maybe I'm completely wrong - maybe it's just random chance and my (let's be honest) very small data set isn't really compelling ... but it would make some sort of business smarts to do it that way.

[B]

I have a theory about this - and it's pure conjecture, but ... here it is...

Having worked at a Fender dealer for almost 20 years I've had a bit larger sample size... And I could VERY EASILY get behind that theory. In fact, that exact thought has crossed my mind often.

I felt exactly that in regards to the 60s Lacquer offsets and every model of Road Worn (offsets and Strat/Teles). The first ones seen at dealers were outstanding guitars, but every year afterwards they never came close. Thin Skin Stratocasters were very much like that. Of the two AV65s I had, I too had a gold one... One of the very first ordered. It, as well as most of the first ones that came in, seemed to feel better overall than the later ones. The later sunburst model I had (ordered sight unseen) was a total dud.

Whether this is a conscious decision, a matter of material supply or just chance is a total guess.

[redchapterjubilee]

I’ve owned A LOT of jazzmasters since I joined this forum. I concur with some of the discussion above. Early MIJ Jazzmaster finishes we’re really thick on the body AND the neck too. The classic ‘60s Lacquer JM’s were sometimes sent out to cure in the case. Mine was and did not fully cure. I have a few small spots on the back that look like they were hit with a highlighter. My gold AV65’s finish is thin but that guitar is heavier than my other JM’s. It is also from the first run in 2012. My two AVRI’s are from the last run in 2012 and the finish has worn almost as easily as the AV65. The black AVRI I have flakes easily. I am not the original owner (someone on here had it before we did and I’m sure that person’s wear was not 100% natural). The white one has started to yellow some. I am the original owner on that one and I can tell when I pull the guard to work underneath How it’s aging. Whatever Coronado is doing to finish the Roadworn JM’s is excellent. They use poly but wear it to where it feels and looks right. I own five JM’s now and they all are different in fit, finish, and feel in some way or another.

I am curious about the AO. I am hoping to add one more really good JM this year. I am looking at that line but also seeing some great used deals on AV65’s right now too. And, while not top dollar, the FSR pearl white MIM Standard with matching headstock is also calling my name.

[daysleeperjeff]

I’ve got to say my OT American Original is the nicest Jazzmaster I’ve ever owned. I’ve had about 15 JM’s in my lifetime and have been playing them exclusively since around 1995.

Just a superior, quality build. Just beautiful. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I opened the case for the first time. I’ve never seen a Jazzmaster look THAT perfect before. Sounds amazing and the body rings and vibrates like a tuning fork. I also love the brown tortoise guard on mine. I normally like vintage red tort but on Ocean Turquoise I think the brown looks best.

It’s never leaving my arsenal!