New Fender Player Jaguar PF Tidepool model for 2018

[Larry Mal]

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[timiscott]

That's metaphysical.

[Grey]

Now, I know you, Grey, and I know that you are going to say, shit, Larry, those harmonics aren't all that important. My guitar rocks! Fuck you, Larry.

I hear you, baby.

And you know what I'll say, I'll say, sure. Take that same EQ curve that you see on those charts above and apply that to a recording of a violin, or an acoustic guitar, or even an entire song that you like, and tell me if you don't hear a difference. Of course you will.

And that, motherfucker, is why I say that there is very much room for improvement over the old Alnico pickup technology that's been used since the 30's. It doesn't output the full frequency response of what the vibrating string is outputting.

Get me now?

Actually what i'm going to say is that your arguement relies on a lot of assumptions. You acknowledge that fact yourself so i'm not going to rake you over the coals about it too much, but you've glossed over a number of key details to make your point here. For one thing, you picked the graph with some of the worst charting pickups from the source material, others presented in the video don't begin to noticeably fall off until around ~5,000hz.

I will say you got me pegged pretty good though, because I do disagree about how important those extended harmonic frequencies are to the electric guitar. Strap in for some words n' shit!

This will further retread some material you already covered so I apologize for that but bear with me here. The maximum fundamental frequency a guitar can produce is much lower than that of some other instruments, this is an important detail, because harmonics are multiples of the fundamental frequency. When you read that paragraph you quoted, at first glance most people would probably say "wow, look at those numbers! 16,744hz!" Here's the thing, that article is comparing the highest tones of a piccolo flute, which is a C note at 4,186hz. That means the first harmonic of that note is occuring at 8,372hz because it's twice the frequency of 4,186hz. Right?

Now, the highest note on a typical guitar is about 988hz as you say, let's call it 1000hz for the sake of simple math and since some electrics go a bit higher. The first harmonic of the highest note a guitar can produce is occuring at 2000hz. The 3rd is at 3000hz, the 4th is at 4000hz, and the 5th is at 5000hz. Comparitively, the 5th harmonic of the highest note on the piccolo flute is at 20,840hz and by that point we've reached the falloff point for that microphone you mentioned. Meanwhile, the 5th harmonic frequency at 5000hz on the guitar is still within the range of the Alnico pickup I chose from that source video, some of which perform better than others and with concessions being made for the accuracy of testing, etc. Not all pickups use Alnico magnets either so i'd be curious to read a detailed comparison of the different materials.

Maybe we're really missing out on those 6th-and-beyond-harmonics on the electric guitar, but I kind of doubt it. It should also be said that i'm not some kind of expert on this stuff, and there really are a lot of variables here so this shouldn't be taken as some kind of gospel.

And hey, it might not be necessary but plenty of people buy things that aren't necessary for the sake of esoteric improvements, so maybe there is a market for this sort of thing. Really well put together post though, seriously. I feel like innovation is easy to ask for when you aren't the one who has to do the innovating, and I respect that you've actually given this some thought.

[Larry Mal]

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[leokula]

In other news, what's with the new colours? To me there's little difference between 'sonic red' and fiesta red. Is there anything that links sonic red and sonic blue? Or is it just an arbitrary naming choice?

I know these pictures might be far from the actual color in person, but I say from those pictures alone, the sonic red seems to have more orange than fiesta red.

I'm not sure what they want with these new color names... I mean this Tidepool could easily pass as LPB (or even aged LPB), 'cause over the years LPB has varied so much, this could be named that. And this sonic red, why not just do fiesta red?

And sage metallic green is indeed such a great color! Happy to see it back!

[Larry Mal]

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[Jaguar018]

Larry... come on man. Walls of text about guitar pickups over some silly Jaguar model that you wouldn't ever consider buying in the first place?

OSG merely wants custom colors, custom options, and cheap prices. Nearly all new non-traditional designs are mocked and derided.

Take that "Fender needs to innovate" argument over to TGP where a small, yet vocal, group will welcome you with open arms.

The biggest poll in the tent about "innovation" is MAKING MONEY not pleasing some guy with twenty guitars (mostly Gibsons) who is tired of the same reshuffled taco toppings. If major guitar companies thought they could make a mint with a game changing pickup... they would. Different companies big and small have been introducing new technology into guitars for decades now. Nothing has really stuck. If you show me one electric guitar player that is all pumped for the Mal3000 pickup with USB I will show you a hundred that don't give a shit.

[DWO]

I saw one of these at my local Sam Ashe. Looked nice. I was looking to get a more traditional Jag with all the switches so I didn't play it.

[Mechanical Birds]

And in all fairness, Fender could point out that they already make plenty of Jaguars, an American Standard thing and the vintage types, the Johnny Marr, so on. The Jaguar is covered.

Which is why I kind of resent this. It's just... I don't know. Why don't they try new models anymore? Why has guitar pickup technology gone back to where it was in the 50's? There literally isn't any way for the world's biggest electric guitar maker to think about pushing the envelope?

And I guess that there either isn't, because they don't have the vision or they don't think the market will bear that out.

But they are wrong. Some day, somehow, some one is going to come up with a new, must have instrument, and new music will be built around that. I don't know what it'll be either. But this sure isn't it, and if I was Fender, maybe I'd be thinking of how to develop that future instrument rather than constantly regurgitating variations on the past.

Of course, market place failures cost a lot of money when they don't work, and Fender has a pretty good cash cow going for now, so...

Tidepool it is, then. It was going to be the "Tide Pod", they were going to cash in on that craze, but a lot of kids ate the fucking guitars and got really sick so they had to kill that, and paint the guitars blue/gray. It's true! If you look under the finish on one of these you'll see a nice swirl under there.

Imagine if they even just tried doing actual versions of the marauder prototypes and not just calling something a marauder when it’s basically just the same as this Jag in the OP. the under the guard pickups were proprietary and they could do something brand new with the version II. I know this isn’t really what you mean but I think about what yr saying a lot too - like how has gender not realized an actual NEW MODEL of guitar with a new tremolo and new pickup design since what, the 80s maybe?

It’s really fucking dumb and something I’d love and that would seem to write it’s own copy - “just like our founder was always doing - pushing forward, creating new proprietary guitars from scratch...” etc.

Would be cool :/

[Beyer160]

And that, motherfucker, is why I say that there is very much room for improvement over the old Alnico pickup technology that's been used since the 30's. It doesn't output the full frequency response of what the vibrating string is outputting.

What you're proposing is a change, not necessarily an improvement. A Les Paul Jr with a single P90 played through a 5e3 sounds fucking awesome. Replacing the P90 with a super hi-fi pickup will certainly change the sound, but whether or not it will be better is in the eye of the beerholder. Swapping the amp for a JC120 would be similar, except that it will absolutely empirically sound worse.

In recording, a lot of folks think they want a condenser mic with the widest possible frequency response for everything. What they actually want is a mic that's flattering to the source, be it a snare drum, didgeridoo or Adele. (Insert your own joke about the most appropriate mic for recording Adele here). Sometimes that's a mic with a limited frequency response and/or shitty transient response, like a ribbon.

I'm not saying your proposal is a bad idea, just that it wouldn't necessarily be better in all situations than the 1930s magnet/copper technology currently in use.

[Larry Mal]

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[Larry Mal]

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[arkivel]

Can there be a rant forum for all these psychotic ramblings? There's a few things I want to open up about too.

[Larry Mal]

So you don't feel I should be saying what I'm saying, then? Whatever. Not sure who the fuck you are to make that call or why anyone should care about your opinion, but like I do when I'm challenged here, I just pull out.

Sorry, asshole. I had the idea to make a discussion more interesting than "ooh, blue," but you get what you deserve in this place as any other.

I'm out. I'll take my posts down- you can have the thread. Go fuck yourself, asshole.

[BearBoy]

Oh. I actually found your posts on this interesting Larry. I'd never really thought much about how pickup design hadn't really progressed for decades. I guess there are active pickups but I've always (maybe unfairly, I don't know) just associated them with ultra high gain metal stuff. I thought your idea of a "hi-fi" pickup was intriguing.