Does the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge work for you?

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.

Does the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge work for you?

Yes, the original design is fine as long as you know how it works
86
60%
No, it needs to be replaced
58
40%
 
Total votes: 144

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daysleeperjeff
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Re: Does the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge work for you?

Post by daysleeperjeff » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:18 am

I’m with Larry on this...delivered in typical Larry style! Well done sir. Ultimately I’m a Staytrem guy.

...Hmmm looks like Larry’s post is gone.

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Re: Does the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge work for you?

Post by BoringPostcards » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:06 am

I got lucky. I owned two jazzmasters with old school bridges and both bridges were nice and seized up and didn't move at all. No problems with string skipping, but I use 11s anyways on Jazzmasters.
I really enjoyed the feel of the TOM on my Fender purple Mascis. I love the staytrem. Have only used Mastery twice at a friend's. Not enough experience with using them or setting them up.
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Re: Does the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge work for you?

Post by tammyw » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:06 am

Beyer160 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:41 pm
Though I am told the issue has now been resolved, all three of the new Fender AmPro Jazzmasters I tried had high E strings practically hanging over the edge of the fretboard bue to the Staytrem clone bridge being mis-spaced.
It sounds like you are saying the AmPro bridge was a clone of a Staytrem, but that's not correct. The AmPro bridge is just a Mustang bridge (with traditional spacing), having none of the unique features of the Staytrem bridge. At best you could say "the Staytrem bridge was based on the Mustang design," but otherwise there is no relation between the two.
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Re: Does the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge work for you?

Post by Lock » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:03 pm

I find the responses limiting. I have two offsets with regular bridges, one with a TOM. The TOM stays perfectly in tune with hard vibrato use and never breaks strings or has issues. I’d gig it with out hesitation. The regular bridges aren’t “must replace” bad, one is fine and the other has trouble maintaining pitch. I do like the difference in tone and attack it provides, but I’d have to tape the posts on one if I was going to play out with it. It’s an ongoing process, and I don’t find it worth the time to spend multiple afternoons troubleshooting it.

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Re: Does the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge work for you?

Post by timtam » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:49 pm

tammyw wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:06 am
Beyer160 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:41 pm
Though I am told the issue has now been resolved, all three of the new Fender AmPro Jazzmasters I tried had high E strings practically hanging over the edge of the fretboard bue to the Staytrem clone bridge being mis-spaced.
It sounds like you are saying the AmPro bridge was a clone of a Staytrem, but that's not correct. The AmPro bridge is just a Mustang bridge (with traditional spacing), having none of the unique features of the Staytrem bridge. At best you could say "the Staytrem bridge was based on the Mustang design," but otherwise there is no relation between the two.
I had thought that the Am Pro at least had the same Staytrem-like mods as the Johnny Marr jag's bridge, like the plastic bits that stop the bridge height grub screws from slipping down. But it looks from the pics at the links below that it doesn't. While it therefore looks just like a Mustang bridge, it does have a different Fender part number (which would usually mean 'something' is different) ...

http://darrenriley.com/store/fender-ame ... 709942000/
http://darrenriley.com/store/fender-mus ... 035555000/

JMarr bridge is p/n 0091905000.
https://reverb.com/ca/item/410224-2014- ... uar-bridge
Last edited by timtam on Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Does the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge work for you?

Post by mackerelmint » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:46 pm

Gosh. Some kinda response, eh?

I don't think it's a very good bridge at all. It's why I ditched my jag back in the 90s. As for the "just use heavier strings" argument, I'd submit that a bridge worth its salt should be able to accommodate whatever kinds of strings the player wants. Someone who likes playing with featherlight strings should be able to do so without being told that they're wrong by some wag on the internet, is how I see it.

For the record, I prefer the staytrem bridge, followed by roller TOMs. The stock bridge it replaced didn't give me any kind of trouble while it was on, so that's another thing. I'd submit that consistency is important here. Some bridges working just fine and others needing a bunch of fiddling with is a strike against it in my book. Nothing against you guys who find themselves satisfied with it. Those are just reasons why I prefer other options.
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Re: Does the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge work for you?

Post by thatfenderguy » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:52 pm

My CIJ Jazzmaster still has the original bridge. I play with a skinny top/heavy bottom set with no issues.

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Re: Does the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge work for you?

Post by sirspens » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:36 pm

DesmondWafers wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:46 am
I would check out the "how to pronounce Jaguar" thread if you want something several magnitudes worse.
Hahahaha. That was a fantastic thread.

Also, I've never had a problem with stock bridges. I have two Jazzmasters, one set up with heavy bottom 12s and one with standard 10s. They obviously sound completely different and the bridge works for both of them.

Oh, and I use the standard bridge on my patscaster 12 string Jazzmaster, using the grooves to space the strings. Works great.

That said, playing a Jazzmaster made me develop a lighter touch, but I think it has improved my playing style.

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Re: Does the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge work for you?

Post by spacecadet » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:05 pm

mackerelmint wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:46 pm
As for the "just use heavier strings" argument, I'd submit that a bridge worth its salt should be able to accommodate whatever kinds of strings the player wants.
I don't agree with this. This is kind of like saying that a Jeep Wrangler should be able to go 200mph just because you wish it, and because other cars can. Life (and engineering) doesn't work that way.

The Jazzmaster (and Jaguar) were designed and built for heavy strings. That's reality. Now, you can use .008's if you want, but you're probably going to have to do some kind of mod to the original design to make it work properly. That's why we now have JM's with TOMs, Mustang bridges and shallow break angles to begin with. Those are just factory mods to the original design, but you can easily do some of them yourself and many people do. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the original design, it just means you're using it in a different way than was originally intended. And there's nothing wrong with that either, but just realize that's what it is. It's like putting low rolling resistance tires, an aero kit and a new transmission on a Wrangler to make it go faster and handle better. Those aren't "improvements", they're just changes to make the car more like how *you* want it.

Plenty of guitars were designed for light strings. The Jazzmaster was designed for jazz, which in those days meant heavy strings. I don't see anything wrong with having different guitars designed for different things. These days it seems like everybody wants one guitar design to do everything, which just isn't how it works.

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Re: Does the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge work for you?

Post by sunburster » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:46 pm

I've said this many times here before, but I don't mind shouting it from the rooftops: The stock vintage-style American bridge is my favourite. I'll never change to a different type. I currently have two jags and a JM with it, all have ernie ball normal slinky (10-46) strings on them, none of them have any issues, and all sound great, strings stay in their saddles and stay in tune.

All my bridges are stock Americans (two are nearly 20 years old). If one of them ever goes bad, I'll just buy another AVRI bridge. They're like $40. I'll never understand people who like the stock bridge, but as soon as they get a bad one they just get a Staytrem or Mastery instead for 2x-5x the price. I mean, if you liked it, just get another one, you know? ??? Every product has its lemons.

I love this bridge for two reasons: adjustable spacing for each individual string (can't do that with a Staytrem or Mastery), and its tonal properties. There is a noticeable difference in tone with Mustang/Staytrem and Mastery bridges, and I don't like the sound of either of those (though they are also different from one another) compared to the stock bridge's tone.

My $0.02.

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Re: Does the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge work for you?

Post by Larsongs » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:28 pm

A better way the OP could've posed the question , "know how to work them & Set them up properly."

If done correctly they are excellent. No need to spend more on American Jags & JM's for other Bridges, Trems etc. unless it's just something you want to do.

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Re: Does the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge work for you?

Post by HNB » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:38 pm

I usually swap the stock for Mustang, Mastery, or Staytrem. For me, the strings often pop out of the small grooves or want to sit where the height adjustment screws are to have them where they go over the pole pieces. Shimming the neck to increase the downward pressure on the bridge can help, but I would rather just use a different bridge.
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Re: Does the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge work for you?

Post by mackerelmint » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:29 pm

spacecadet wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:05 pm
mackerelmint wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:46 pm
As for the "just use heavier strings" argument, I'd submit that a bridge worth its salt should be able to accommodate whatever kinds of strings the player wants.
I don't agree with this. This is kind of like saying that a Jeep Wrangler should be able to go 200mph just because you wish it, and because other cars can. Life (and engineering) doesn't work that way.
Except that it isn't like that at all. Nobody buys a Jeep Wrangler for that. That's not a great analogy. And really, there's no "common" wisdom in the guitar community at large about Jazzmasters being designed for heavy gauge strings, it takes asking a nerd like one of us to find that out. And even though heavy strings may have been the norm at the time, the guitars that had these bridges were total stepchildren, in part because of the bridge. Even back in the day, people had these same problems with the stock bridges, so I maintain that they should have been better designed from the start. It's not like a bridge design is a complicated piece of engineering with things like aerodynamics, weight, power and handling to consider and bring into some kind of order. Saying that engineering doesn't work that way for a guitar bridge is kind of absurd, I think.

Looking at the size of the market for replacement bridges, is that just a result of user error, or unfair expectations? Are we all playing our guitars wrong? A bad setup is a bad setup, but should everyone play with a light touch?

They more or less solved the problem with the mustang bridge (an impossible feat of engineering I guess?), I really don't understand why it didn't become standard equipment across the board. Maybe they didn't want the guitar nerd problems that come with changing something. Poor Gibson, trying to stop headstocks snapping off. What a dumb thing to take umbrage to, but people did in numbers enough to convince them to go back to making less durable headstocks.
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Re: Does the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge work for you?

Post by timiscott » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:37 am

Bought an AV65 JM and was fully expecting to need a Staytrem (as I had to put one in my Squier Jag for tuning stability). Oddly, I've had no issues with the stock bridge at all. However, I AM waiting for things to work loose over time though... but hoping they won't as it's been excellent so far.

On a separate note, but related note, I started a thread on another subject and was astonished by the humourless arrogance of some regulars on the board - it's reassuring to see these same Poundshop professors at it on other threads.

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Re: Does the stock Jazzmaster/Jaguar bridge work for you?

Post by Mad-Mike » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:20 am

Yes, and it always has. Since I bought my first offset of those two models in 2005 - my Jaguar - I made a pact with myself to figure out HOW to get that original bridge to work great on it's own. I knew of Sonic Youth, Cobain, and the others from the 90's swapping them for Tune-O-Matics, but I also knew of Ric Ocasek playing the first part of The Cars career with a stock one, and Elvis Costello always using one like that. So it had to be doable.

So for the first year I had the Jag I found out a lot things about it - this is a 1998 Fender Jaguar CIJ with a stock string path, it had a Tune-O-Matic on it when I bought it. I returned it to stock because I read a lot of puritan-like conversations here on OSG about the stock bridge and decided to make that my challenge, and because the Tune-O-Matic would just eat my strings in half, and because I wanted to see if I could do something about that bridge stock without any hardware changes (well, technically) - I figured if I could make a Mustang stay in tune, I could get those strings immobile on stock hardware. Also, that Tune-O-Matic was so poorly filed it was sawing into my hand - I still have some scars and a callous on the joint between my pinky and the meat of my hand from playing with that setup as I cut myself at least once a month on it (the Jaguar was my main guitar at that time as the Jag-Stang's tuners were dead and I was having trouble finding replacements at the time).

So in mid 2006, I swapped the bridges out for the stock one. And I experimented through most of 06'-07' trying to figure out how to make this thing work better and better. I found I had worse problems with heavier strings because the saddle slots - at least on the CIJ bridges - are just not up to the task of anything .010 or higher gauge staying in it's slot. So I stuck with .009's like I was using on all of my other guitars, which yielded me a few other fringe benefits.

For starters, the .009's are more flexible, so I was getting more harmonics from behind the bridge, and I could control how much I had by moving my palm further behind the bridge or pushing down harder on the saddles to mute the strings behind it. Secondly, I found full bar dives were indeed possible, especially in drop CG (Mailman) tuning - I could make the lower strings go almost limp to the point that full dive bombs were possible with that bridge. I also found all sorts of various noises and tricks picking behind the bridge and using the vibrato (I find the G behind the bridge particularly handy during solos, almost a reedy werd synthy quality).

I also found I could get the strings even more stable if I put heavier springs on the low and high E strings. If I did that, it was as solid as any other guitar in my collection. That's why I replicated the setup on my Jazzmaster when I built that thing in 2009-2010. Because it works so well.

About the only flaw with the bridge is on the Jaguar if you want to use the mute - and I've had an idea for that for years that I never really went after because I don't feel like taking a router and permanantly modifying my Jaguar to have a recessed mute. That to me is the solution.

So since about 2008 or so - all of my offsets with that bridge setup have been setup the same way....My Jaguar, Jazzmaster, and Bass VI.....
- Neck decked to the bottom of the slot, no shim
- Saddles locked in with heavier springs on the low and high E
- light gauge strings (Jag and Jazz) - roundwounds with a .95 or .105 low E (Bass VI)
- 3M Tape locking the bridge height screws in place
- Low E saddle aimed upward a little bit to jam the low E string in place

When the Mastery and Staytrem came out, I decided to forego those because they give the same result for me for more money. Nothing against them, they look nice and might have some different tonal and feel benefits over my way, but I've always liked the stock bridges and they're cheaper to buy.

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