Cobain Jaguar Head Stock

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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FenderBob
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Re: Cobain Jaguar Head Stock

Post by FenderBob » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:33 am

AcrylicSuperman wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:13 pm
Kurt's Jaguar neck was a custom made neck that was made for Martin Jenner. I had to do research on Kurt's Jaguar to find the truth about his Jagstang and it led me into Martin Jenner's history. Martin is deceased, but a friend of his informed me that he had many guitars and necks made for him to his preferences as Martin was a lefty and lefty's were hard to come by. I reached out to the builder of said neck and he confirmed that he built it and provided specs on it. It isn't a traditional Jaguar neck at all and even Fender's RI didn't do it justice. I can't really give you those specs because of a deal I made with the builder, but if you dig deep enough into Martin Jenner, you'll find your answers. The builder isn't super difficult to find and the company builds guitars that are well known.
Am interested in digging into this, found that he preferred telecasters and found this snippet in a book about lefty players.

ImagemARTY by murl99, on Flickr

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Re: Cobain Jaguar Head Stock

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:47 am

FenderBob wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:33 am
AcrylicSuperman wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:13 pm
Kurt's Jaguar neck was a custom made neck that was made for Martin Jenner. I had to do research on Kurt's Jaguar to find the truth about his Jagstang and it led me into Martin Jenner's history. Martin is deceased, but a friend of his informed me that he had many guitars and necks made for him to his preferences as Martin was a lefty and lefty's were hard to come by. I reached out to the builder of said neck and he confirmed that he built it and provided specs on it. It isn't a traditional Jaguar neck at all and even Fender's RI didn't do it justice. I can't really give you those specs because of a deal I made with the builder, but if you dig deep enough into Martin Jenner, you'll find your answers. The builder isn't super difficult to find and the company builds guitars that are well known.
Am interested in digging into this, found that he preferred telecasters and found this snippet in a book about lefty players.

ImagemARTY by murl99, on Flickr
There is absolute truth to that. That jaguar neck was definitely a c shape though, not enough room for a v with the binding. Regardless, it did taper immediately at the bottom of the binding.

Granted, when he is talking thin, he is talking for an era that was the 70s and 80s. Modern Parker Fly's are thinner than his Jaguar. If you pick up a Jaguar or a Mustang in your hand, imagine trimming that down more. You're not exactly ibanez wizard thin, but you are getting there. In an era of the 60s, 70s and early 80s, what Martin preferred wasn't common.

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Re: Cobain Jaguar Head Stock

Post by Pacafeliz » Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:19 am

AcrylicSuperman wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:36 pm
soul1 wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:40 pm
I've never tried the Cobain Jaguar, and all this talk about the neck makes me curious to find out how chunky (or not) the neck is?
It wasn't chunky at all. But Fender also didn't replicate it to exact specs either, so even if you tried one, it still wouldn't be the same.
...I ask myself, WHY would they not get it "right"? I mean, they copied the scratches and dings, WHY not the neck shape?

The Jagstang DID have the exact copy of his fav neck, though. At least that what we've been told...
i love delay SO much ...that i procrastinate all the time.

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Re: Cobain Jaguar Head Stock

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:56 pm

Pacafeliz wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:19 am
AcrylicSuperman wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:36 pm
soul1 wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:40 pm
I've never tried the Cobain Jaguar, and all this talk about the neck makes me curious to find out how chunky (or not) the neck is?
It wasn't chunky at all. But Fender also didn't replicate it to exact specs either, so even if you tried one, it still wouldn't be the same.
...I ask myself, WHY would they not get it "right"? I mean, they copied the scratches and dings, WHY not the neck shape?

The Jagstang DID have the exact copy of his fav neck, though. At least that what we've been told...
Mostly because they wanted to use their Adjustomatic bridge. That's why the fretboard is wrong. They did the same thing with his signature mustang. His touring mustangs were 7.25" radius rather than 9.5". They also made the nut wider. So that is a valid question, why would they not get the mustangs right? After all there is a video of them taking measurements on two of his guitars. Reality is, it's marketing. In terms of the jaguar, how many fender players out there prefer super thin necks? Most seem to gravitate toward a medium C. Kurt's name definitely carries some weight, but there are people who are going to buy it for his name sake and people who are going to play it. At the end of the day, they want to please both parties.

As for the Jagstang, you were fed a marketing gimmick. Both the Jagstang prototypes featured an MG-69 neck made in Japan by Scott Zimmerman, who was the same guy who made the 10 Mustangs that Kurt ordered before the In Utero tours. The Jagstang necks shipped with Skystang II and III. Fender didn't even use the same shape as the Red prototype for the Jagstang. They definitely gave it a thinner neck as well.

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Re: Cobain Jaguar Head Stock

Post by robroe » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:44 pm

JVG wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:42 pm
That’s fair enough. I hadn’t considered that people might start hassling him for necks!

Do you happen to have any info about the decal, ie who made it, and why it was done in the old spaghetti style? No worries if that’s confidential too....all good :)

I’m not a Cobain obsessor, just mildly curious.

J.

someone needs to find the Japanese dude that made the 1995 Jag-Stang neck and pester him for more necks. thats the golden egg not this thing.

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Re: Cobain Jaguar Head Stock

Post by robroe » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:50 pm

AcrylicSuperman wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:56 pm


As for the Jagstang, you were fed a marketing gimmick. Both the Jagstang prototypes featured an MG-69 neck made in Japan by Scott Zimmerman, who was the same guy who made the 10 Mustangs that Kurt ordered before the In Utero tours. The Jagstang necks shipped with Skystang II and III. Fender didn't even use the same shape as the Red prototype for the Jagstang. They definitely gave it a thinner neck as well.

I am the single owner of a 1995 Jag-Stang for 25 years. I also have owned a MG-69 since 2002 and still own it.


its not the same neck. the JS neck is thinner. its obvious when you pick it up.

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Re: Cobain Jaguar Head Stock

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:23 pm

robroe wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:50 pm
AcrylicSuperman wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:56 pm


As for the Jagstang, you were fed a marketing gimmick. Both the Jagstang prototypes featured an MG-69 neck made in Japan by Scott Zimmerman, who was the same guy who made the 10 Mustangs that Kurt ordered before the In Utero tours. The Jagstang necks shipped with Skystang II and III. Fender didn't even use the same shape as the Red prototype for the Jagstang. They definitely gave it a thinner neck as well.

I am the single owner of a 1995 Jag-Stang for 25 years. I also have owned a MG-69 since 2002 and still own it.

its not the same neck. the JS neck is thinner. its obvious when you pick it up.
Again, THE PRODUCTION MODEL NECKS were THINNER. The actual necks on Kurt's PROTOTYPES were regular MG-69 necks. Which is specifically what I just stated in the post you quoted. Reading comprehension is key.

Kurt played one Jagstang, which was given an MG-69 neck. That means his favorite neck was never cloned. The Jagstang prototype was being built before Kurt even got his MG-69s, which is what makes the Kurt's favorite neck thing entirely a Fender marketing gimmick. The production model jagstangs have a completely new neck and the body also differs from the red prototype.

Don't just take my word for it. Take Scott's. When Skystang III went up for action, a letter from him was also included.

Image
Image

He also chimes in here and discusses that he used mustang necks.

https://www.tdpri.com/threads/ex-fender ... 301/page-4

I've done my home work. Scott now builds banjos in Japan under Desert Rose. I've even talked to him. He's a really cool guy.

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Re: Cobain Jaguar Head Stock

Post by JVG » Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:18 am

Pacafeliz wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:19 am
AcrylicSuperman wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:36 pm
soul1 wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:40 pm
I've never tried the Cobain Jaguar, and all this talk about the neck makes me curious to find out how chunky (or not) the neck is?
It wasn't chunky at all. But Fender also didn't replicate it to exact specs either, so even if you tried one, it still wouldn't be the same.
...I ask myself, WHY would they not get it "right"? I mean, they copied the scratches and dings, WHY not the neck shape?

The Jagstang DID have the exact copy of his fav neck, though. At least that what we've been told...
I seem to recall reading that Fender didn’t actually have access to Cobain’s Jag, and therefore couldn’t get exact specs - they did it all from photographs. Unfortunately i can’t find this source now.

Acrylicsuperman...can you confirm this, or is my memory faulty?

Cheers,
J.

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Re: Cobain Jaguar Head Stock

Post by AcrylicSuperman » Wed Mar 04, 2020 12:13 pm

JVG wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:18 am
Pacafeliz wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:19 am
AcrylicSuperman wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:36 pm


It wasn't chunky at all. But Fender also didn't replicate it to exact specs either, so even if you tried one, it still wouldn't be the same.
...I ask myself, WHY would they not get it "right"? I mean, they copied the scratches and dings, WHY not the neck shape?

The Jagstang DID have the exact copy of his fav neck, though. At least that what we've been told...
I seem to recall reading that Fender didn’t actually have access to Cobain’s Jag, and therefore couldn’t get exact specs - they did it all from photographs. Unfortunately i can’t find this source now.

Acrylicsuperman...can you confirm this, or is my memory faulty?

Cheers,
J.
I am unsure. But it wouldn't surprise me.

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Re: Cobain Jaguar Head Stock

Post by FenderBob » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:41 am

JVG wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:18 am

I seem to recall reading that Fender didn’t actually have access to Cobain’s Jag, and therefore couldn’t get exact specs - they did it all from photographs. Unfortunately i can’t find this source now.

Cheers,
J.
I read the opposite, see below article snippet that contains a interview with Justin Norvell of Fender. Note in the article Justin says the neck "appears" original.... that leaves room for doubt. :shifty:

What's really surprising to me is that Justin thinks the neck decal is factory. There is no way that decal came from Fender.

Imagejustin nor by murl99, on Flickr

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Re: Cobain Jaguar Head Stock

Post by JVG » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:41 pm

Interesting, thanks for that! The plot thickens.....

J.

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Re: Cobain Jaguar Head Stock

Post by soul1 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:49 pm

JVG wrote:
Wed Mar 04, 2020 2:18 am
Pacafeliz wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:19 am
AcrylicSuperman wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:36 pm


It wasn't chunky at all. But Fender also didn't replicate it to exact specs either, so even if you tried one, it still wouldn't be the same.
...I ask myself, WHY would they not get it "right"? I mean, they copied the scratches and dings, WHY not the neck shape?

The Jagstang DID have the exact copy of his fav neck, though. At least that what we've been told...
I seem to recall reading that Fender didn’t actually have access to Cobain’s Jag, and therefore couldn’t get exact specs - they did it all from photographs. Unfortunately i can’t find this source now.

Acrylicsuperman...can you confirm this, or is my memory faulty?

Cheers,
J.
I vaguely recall seeing photos (or even a short video?) on a website around the time the KC Jag was announced, where Kurt's actual guitar was being studied and looked at by someone at Fender. I could be wrong, but I do think they had access to it.

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Re: Cobain Jaguar Head Stock

Post by FenderBob » Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:51 pm

soul1 wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:49 pm
I vaguely recall seeing photos (or even a short video?) on a website around the time the KC Jag was announced, where Kurt's actual guitar was being studied and looked at by someone at Fender. I could be wrong, but I do think they had access to it.
Those were his Japanese mustangs in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsWbX4RwPAw

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Re: Cobain Jaguar Head Stock

Post by FenderBob » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:04 am

Found out there indeed was a neck date stamp at the heel of Cobain's neck. So this means the neck wasn't completely custom built, the maple portion was likely factory Fender, the rest was just highly modified.

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Re: Cobain Jaguar Head Stock

Post by OutToDrift » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:57 am

AcrylicSuperman wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:56 pm
Pacafeliz wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:19 am
AcrylicSuperman wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:36 pm


It wasn't chunky at all. But Fender also didn't replicate it to exact specs either, so even if you tried one, it still wouldn't be the same.
...I ask myself, WHY would they not get it "right"? I mean, they copied the scratches and dings, WHY not the neck shape?

The Jagstang DID have the exact copy of his fav neck, though. At least that what we've been told...
Mostly because they wanted to use their Adjustomatic bridge. That's why the fretboard is wrong. They did the same thing with his signature mustang. His touring mustangs were 7.25" radius rather than 9.5". They also made the nut wider. So that is a valid question, why would they not get the mustangs right? After all there is a video of them taking measurements on two of his guitars. Reality is, it's marketing. In terms of the jaguar, how many fender players out there prefer super thin necks? Most seem to gravitate toward a medium C. Kurt's name definitely carries some weight, but there are people who are going to buy it for his name sake and people who are going to play it. At the end of the day, they want to please both parties.

As for the Jagstang, you were fed a marketing gimmick. Both the Jagstang prototypes featured an MG-69 neck made in Japan by Scott Zimmerman, who was the same guy who made the 10 Mustangs that Kurt ordered before the In Utero tours. The Jagstang necks shipped with Skystang II and III. Fender didn't even use the same shape as the Red prototype for the Jagstang. They definitely gave it a thinner neck as well.
Are you saying that the Cobain Signature Mustangs have a 9.5 radius when they were listed to have a 7.25 radius?

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