Fender American Original Jaguars and Jazzmasters

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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BoringPostcards
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Re: Fender American Original Jaguars and Jazzmasters

Post by BoringPostcards » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:29 am

Beyer160 wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:57 am
ThePearDream wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:12 am
Beyer160 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:48 pm
At least he pronounces it "Jag-U-ar" instead of "Jag-wire" like a dumbfuck.
I don't want to be a pedant, but I'm going to do it anyway.
Jag-u-ar is just as wrong as jag-wire. Possibly more wrong.
It should be jag-warr (rhymes with marr - as in johnny).
If you don't believe me, ask an ancient indigenous South American.
Perhaps, but Captain Lee is an Englishman, and in dear old Blighty they pronounce the name of the car and cat as "Jag-U-war." You can argue whether this is actually correct or not, but the good Captain has generations of cultural history on his side. Also, there is actually a "u" in "Jaguar," while there is absolutely no way to get "wire" out of those letters.
There sure is a way to get that sound with those letters. It's called "another language's pronunciation", silly arse. There's no reason why those letters can't be pronounced as any combo of sounds. Languages don't cross conform with each other.
The US/Canadian way of saying Jaguar is much closer to the actual pronunciation of the Mayan word than "jag-u-ar" will ever be.
It's not an English word, man.
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Re: Fender American Original Jaguars and Jazzmasters

Post by O Drones » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:58 am

sunburster wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:30 pm
Andertons video showing both the Jag and the JM:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... 0XatUaoHtw

Starts at the 31:50 mark. You have to put up with their usual spiel about how these guitars are too complicated and weird and unsuccessful, but whatever. :fp:
Wow. They couldn't be more ignorant when it comes to offsets. That's quite ridiculous. They just slag them off, and relay incorrect info :fp:
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Re: Fender American Original Jaguars and Jazzmasters

Post by scottT » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:11 am

As was alluded to earlier, is part of the appeal of offsets that they aren't for everyone? Only for those willing to fight with them a little and that the reward is gained in the struggle? That they only reveal their sonic secrets to those who persevere? Sort of the anti-Strat. I was wondering if this is part of the resistance to a flatter radius and taller frets. We don't want them to play easier for the masses. Do we really want to see ad copy stating how the new Jazzmaster plays like butter and facilitates easier string bending?

On the pronunciation debate, here in the states Jag-u-ar is reserved for narrators with posh sounding British accents selling us luxury cars in t.v. commercials.

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Re: Fender American Original Jaguars and Jazzmasters

Post by Embenny » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:36 am

scottT wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:11 am
As was alluded to earlier, is part of the appeal of offsets that they aren't for everyone? Only for those willing to fight with them a little and that the reward is gained in the struggle? That they only reveal their sonic secrets to those who persevere? Sort of the anti-Strat. I was wondering if this is part of the resistance to a flatter radius and taller frets. We don't want them to play easier for the masses. Do we really want to see ad copy stating how the new Jazzmaster plays like butter and facilitates easier string bending?

On the pronunciation debate, here in the states Jag-u-ar is reserved for narrators with posh sounding British accents selling us luxury cars in t.v. commercials.
I wouldn't say that I want them to play harder, as my Jags and Mustangs with their vintage radii and tiny frets are the most comfortable guitars I have ever laid hands on.

But I think you're on the right track. I think that making them play more like a strat, and in the case of the AmPro Jm's pickups, sound more like a strat, feels like diluting the offset experience. I used to be a "strat guy" 20 years ago. Now I have one, and barely touch it. I just don't like the way they feel. The ergonomics of offsets just feel so much better.

I've been happy to see more JM and Jag models out there. I remember when the introduction of the AVRIs finally meant we didn't have to hunt down MIJs anymore just to buy a new offset. These are better times, but it's still sad to see vintage-spec guitars phased out of production.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

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Re: Fender American Original Jaguars and Jazzmasters

Post by SMBlack » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:37 am

If you prefer vintage spec, get the 1958 prototype. If you prefer modern spec - Thin Skin or AO. There’s something for everyone here. I’m pretty happy at the number of options as someone who is in the market for a new JM.

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Re: Fender American Original Jaguars and Jazzmasters

Post by tealsixtysix » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:17 am

The Thin Skin JM I played didn't sound like a Strat, it sounded like a proper Jazzmaster. It didn't play like a Strat either, it was just a little bit easier on my hands than the AV65 (or my 1966, which is one of those transition-era Fenders that came from the factory with bigger-than-traditional-vintage frets, but they're worn.)

I'm looking forward to trying an American Original Jaguar. I'm confident that it'll be a proper Jaguar.

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Re: Fender American Original Jaguars and Jazzmasters

Post by Stosh221 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:26 am

All I know is that if I wind up purchasing an AO60s Jazzmaster, that baby’s gettin’ a gold al-U-min-ee-um pickguard. Or “aloom-nim” as we say in my neck of the woods. :D

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Re: Fender American Original Jaguars and Jazzmasters

Post by Beyer160 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:33 am

BoringPostcards wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:29 am
There sure is a way to get that sound with those letters. It's called "another language's pronunciation", silly arse. There's no reason why those letters can't be pronounced as any combo of sounds. Languages don't cross conform with each other.
The US/Canadian way of saying Jaguar is much closer to the actual pronunciation of the Mayan word than "jag-u-ar" will ever be.
It's not an English word, man.
Apparently you missed the part where everyone in the conversation was speaking English, so yeah- rules of English pronunciation and grammar apply. "Jaguar" cannot be pronounced "Jagwire" in English unless you're a fucking idiot. Maybe Inuit or Esperanto has a way to do it, so I'll keep that in mind the next time I'm having a conversation about Jaguars in a different language.

Your argument is the equivalent of: "of course football players can hit the ball with a stick- they do it in hockey!"

I bet you're one of those shitwits who pronounce it "Jagwire," aren't you?

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Re: Fender American Original Jaguars and Jazzmasters

Post by BoringPostcards » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:52 am

Beyer160 wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:33 am
BoringPostcards wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:29 am
There sure is a way to get that sound with those letters. It's called "another language's pronunciation", silly arse. There's no reason why those letters can't be pronounced as any combo of sounds. Languages don't cross conform with each other.
The US/Canadian way of saying Jaguar is much closer to the actual pronunciation of the Mayan word than "jag-u-ar" will ever be.
It's not an English word, man.
Apparently you missed the part where everyone in the conversation was speaking English, so yeah- rules of English pronunciation and grammar apply. "Jaguar" cannot be pronounced "Jagwire" in English unless you're a fucking idiot. Maybe Inuit or Esperanto has a way to do it, so I'll keep that in mind the next time I'm having a conversation about Jaguars in a different language.

Your argument is the equivalent of: "of course football players can hit the ball with a stick- they do it in hockey!"

I bet you're one of those shitwits who pronounce it "Jagwire," aren't you?
It's not an English word. If we use a foreign word, we USUALLY don't alter it that much. I'm guessing you've never uttered the words champagne or filet mignon?
Fuck off calling me an idiot in a public forum for giving you a bit of perspective.
Abrasive cunt child.
Det er mig der holder traeerne sammen.

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Re: Fender American Original Jaguars and Jazzmasters

Post by daysleeperjeff » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:35 pm

A lot of hate on here for these, but for me I’m trying out the Ocean Turquoise JM. These are ticking off a bunch of boxes for me. 65’ pickups, 9.5 “C” neck radius, tall frets, bound neck, Ocean Turquoise without matching headstock. It’s like everything I’m looking for.

I got the Mystic Seafoam AP Jazzy last year and freakin’ love it as a unique contrast to my AVRI. It plays so nice and comfortable I haven’t picked up my black 2005 AVRI JM since. Looking to swap the AVRI with something like this with traditional JM switching and pickups but with the “modern” neck specs.

This might be the one...
Last edited by daysleeperjeff on Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fender American Original Jaguars and Jazzmasters

Post by SMBlack » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:57 pm

Jeff - I’m with you. I have wanted a new JM but don’t like the vintage frets and radius on the AV or pickups and lack of rhythm circuit and poly finish on the Pro. The AO has the features I like about both guitars in one. I either want an AO in 3TS or a Thin Skin in CFM.

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Re: Fender American Original Jaguars and Jazzmasters

Post by Zeus » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:46 pm

tealsixtysix wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:17 am
Mechanical Birds wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:29 am

I've yet to literally ever see someone be like "man I love a nice light rosewood."

Just seems like kind of a universal thing that people want dark fretboards if they aren't getting something with maple.
The problem, of course, is that this is the rosewood that is available at non-exorbitant prices now.

I secretly wish Fender would just dye them.
I bought my Jag a few years back and the rosewood is really, really light (and streaky):

Image

I guess I would've preferred a darker board if it were available but that's what was there at the time.

Anyway, some of these pau ferros seem darker.

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Re: Fender American Original Jaguars and Jazzmasters

Post by ThePearDream » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:47 pm

Beyer160 wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:57 am

Perhaps, but Captain Lee is an Englishman, and in dear old Blighty they pronounce the name of the car and cat as "Jag-U-war." You can argue whether this is actually correct or not, but the good Captain has generations of cultural history on his side. Also, there is actually a "u" in "Jaguar," while there is absolutely no way to get "wire" out of those letters.

In this article I did learn there is a sportsball team in Florida called the Jaguars, which the local populace pronounces "Jag-wires":

https://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/ ... g-yoo-are/

The stupidity of the people of Florida in their inability to pronounce a common, simple, two-syllable word is no reason to mispronounce the name of a guitar (or a car or cat, for that matter) which has been in existence long before the sportsball team. Anyone who says "Jagwire" in my presence risks swift rebuke and ridicule.
Please indulge me for a moment. I'm far more familiar with American English than I am with British English.
How would you pronounce the "u" in the following words?
rude, fruit, spruce, duty, tune

I would pronounce those like an "ooh" sound, which when combined with the "are" sound, makes ooh-are or warr.
Jag-ooh-are

Now, there are plenty of people who say "jag-wire" and yes they do sound stupid, but (to me) it also sounds stupid to say" jag-u-war".

If you say jag-u-war in my presence, well, I'll just ignore your weird pronunciation quirks and understand what you are talking about with getting upset over something trivial.
Doug
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Re: Fender American Original Jaguars and Jazzmasters

Post by spacecadet » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:58 pm

Zeus wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:46 pm
I bought my Jag a few years back and the rosewood is really, really light (and streaky):

Image

I guess I would've preferred a darker board if it were available but that's what was there at the time.

Anyway, some of these pau ferros seem darker.
This was/is also the rosewood used on the AV65's. I'm not sure if someone was arguing if it's because it's cheaper, but it's not - they were using this before the new restrictions were in place, and it's actually more expensive than the darker stuff. This was supposed to be a special thing to make these guitars stand out. You should be happy to have that rosewood.

Rosewood that's just light can have a tendency to look dull, and I think that's why some people don't like it. But this rosewood has a lot of really interesting grain. At one point I knew the species but have forgotten it now. It was discussed here at the time the AV65's first came out, though.

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Re: Fender American Original Jaguars and Jazzmasters

Post by MechaBulletBill » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:27 pm

Zeus wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:46 pm
tealsixtysix wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:17 am
Mechanical Birds wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:29 am

I've yet to literally ever see someone be like "man I love a nice light rosewood."

Just seems like kind of a universal thing that people want dark fretboards if they aren't getting something with maple.
The problem, of course, is that this is the rosewood that is available at non-exorbitant prices now.

I secretly wish Fender would just dye them.
I bought my Jag a few years back and the rosewood is really, really light (and streaky):

Image

I guess I would've preferred a darker board if it were available but that's what was there at the time.

Anyway, some of these pau ferros seem darker.
That looks really cool.

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