Why should I get a FENDER Jazzmaster?

[NICQ]

This thing was on my mind the whole evening yesterday so I can't let this go:

Larsongs - I think you just do not get the point and your ramblings about "the truth" (=your point of view/your experiences) are also not really helpful.

The question the OP asks is if he really needs a "Fender" or why he should "need" one

In my opinion this comes down to 2 things : Firstly Yes, Fender guitars normally are superior in build quality and quality of parts used compared to Squier although this difference is not as big as it used to be 10 years ago. The thing is you have to get to know the American Standard / AVRI / US or let's just say top of the line Fender level of guitars and then you have to decide of that's something you want / need and are willing to pay 4 times the amount of money for it compared to a Squier. When I discovered this forum I was in the mindset that an AVRI Jazzmaster guitar is just the best thing ever and I absolutely need that. If you that gets you "in the zone" and you perform just on 100% instead of 90% or if that inspires you to have your best ideas and not just ideas - well then even the 1800eur are worth it.

But this forum opened my eyes on doing things by myself - setting up guitars, fixing minor problems, changing hardware, doing mods and even building or assembling partscasters and finishing the bodies.. and I am indefinately grateful that I came past that and discovered for myself that I am most inspired by instruments that I have modded to my personal taste and not bought for thousands of euros.

And yes Larsongs - I know what top of then line fenders are, how they play and why they are great "products". I also own/have owned custom shop guitars and have played vintage guitars and my favourite guitars are the ones I've built myself and changed the configuration until it was exactly as I had it in mind or sometimes even by accident some constellation came together that was just unique and perfect. I honestly prefer my modded Squier to my AVRI Jazzmaster. I would never ever trade my partscaster with a VM body where I installed the relic'd import trem a bit crooked against a perfect AV '65 because it just sounds and feels perfect for me. In fact my 2 AVRIs collect dust in their cases and I have taken one apart and installed a Squier neck on the body and put the neck on a partscaster. Blasphemy but I don't know what a good guitar is I guess...

But I do not go around and tell people to believe in my "truth" - you have to decide what works for you and if you want or even need to go on that journey. I would recommend to get to know cheap and expensive guitars and you will see for yourself if that's something you need or do not need to be happy - if you are ok with paying a tech so set up your guitar or if you want to refinish your AVRI just for fun.

And that's why I'm getting annoyed by you Larsongs, riding into every thread on your high horse telling beginners who ask on here about SQVMs that they are shit and the AV65 is soooooo great. Now you even start believing that your "truth" is absolute and we have no clue and can not handle that?? Dude, this is just your opinion and if that works for you that's totally ok for everyone on here. Maybe you had the worst luck and had 3 VM duds but a lot of people on here had a good guitar from the go and that alone sets your "truth" into perspective. And by going on this crusade you make a fool of yourself which is fine but maybe you also point beginners in the wrong direction because they could discover for themselves what works best for them and maybe they fall down that rabbit hole like a lot of us did and live happily ever after with their cheap modded guitars that they love to bits chasing after the next mod.

[mackerelmint]

I seem to recall pretty vividly at least one of those guitars being sent back for poor setup, like he alluded to upthread before they turned into "structural problems". "I don't want to have to do a setup, so back it goes". That's anyone's prerogative, but that's also not the fault of the manufacturer that after shipping it's not set up well, and they're not the ones selling the guitars on to consumers without going over them. I guess I could go back and find the posts where Lars talked about how he didn't feel like paying someone to set them up and having to spend more so back they went, but it's not really worth making any bigger a deal about it. It isn't an important bone to pick in the big scheme of things. I got a fucked up VM the first time, from the real early run of sonic blue ones that had black gunk all over. It was replaced with a new and perfect one forthwith. Structural issues happen and I believed him when he said he got one, but that's not the same as needing a setup, much less being scandalized about it after being given reams of honest experiences to shape expectations, which is pretty ridiculous and why I'm ridiculing him I suppose.

[mackerelmint]

And FWIW, and I've said this before, I'd yank the neck off of an AVRI/AV65 and replace it with a JMJM neck any day of the week and consider it an upgrade. Get some money back, too.

[Larsongs]

I seem to recall pretty vividly at least one of those guitars being sent back for poor setup, like he alluded to upthread before they turned into "structural problems". "I don't want to have to do a setup, so back it goes". That's anyone's prerogative, but that's also not the fault of the manufacturer that after shipping it's not set up well, and they're not the ones selling the guitars on to consumers without going over them. I guess I could go back and find the posts where Lars talked about how he didn't feel like paying someone to set them up and having to spend more so back they went, but it's not really worth making any bigger a deal about it. It isn't an important bone to pick in the big scheme of things. I got a fucked up VM the first time, from the real early run of sonic blue ones that had black gunk all over. It was replaced with a new and perfect one forthwith. Structural issues happen and I believed him when he said he got one, but that's not the same as needing a setup, much less being scandalized about it after being given reams of honest experiences to shape expectations, which is pretty ridiculous and why I'm ridiculing him I suppose.

C'mon guys, now you're making up things I never said or did! I never sent a Guitar back because of it's Set Up! Ever!

Dudes, if it isn't ok to tell our individual experiences here then this Forum then it's a Dictatorship. Is that what this is?

It's hard for me to believe I'm the only one who's gone into several Music Stores & picked up several VMJM's or JMJM's & the Action & Intonation wasn't a mile off. Or, that only the 3 I bought were lemons that had broken Parts, or Parts that were inoperable or something Structurally wrong with them. It's also hard for me to believe I'm the only only one whose had Fender turn down a Warranty Claim on a new Guitar.

It's great that many of you like to be Mechanics & spend your time working on Guitars. Between running my Studio & Playing I don't have the time. It's pretty far down my list of things I want to do with my time.

[601210]

It's great that many of you like to be Mechanics & spend your time working on Guitars. Between running my Studio & Playing I don't have the time. It's pretty far down my list of things I want to do with my time.

I think lowering your bridge a couple millimeters and maybe tightening your truss rod a quarter turn is about as much being a mechanic as adjusting your car seat, but that's just my opinion.

[Larsongs]

It's great that many of you like to be Mechanics & spend your time working on Guitars. Between running my Studio & Playing I don't have the time. It's pretty far down my list of things I want to do with my time.

I think lowering your bridge a couple millimeters and maybe tightening your truss rod a quarter turn is about as much being a mechanic as adjusting your car seat, but that's just my opinion.

I'm rollin' on the ground laughing!!! For a VMJM?? That is friggin' Hilarious!!!!!!! You're joking? Right? If That's all you did to yours, it ain't a Pro Set Up!!! And it's arguably a Pro level Guitar..

Besides that there's 10,000 Posts on numerous Threads about changing & or Shimming the Neck, changin the Body, Pickups, replacing the Tremelo, Nut, Bridge, Switches, Knobs & Wiring, Input Jack, Nut & Tuners etc. is what I keep reading the Guys here are doing to theirs..... oh and of course the Pickgurds!!!!

Give me a Break!!!

[Larsongs]

The first Guitar I owned when I was about 10 convinced me I could never play.. It seemed like I couldn't do anything right & my fingers bled from practicing so hard. I quit for years. Figured it wasn't meant to be.

Nobody ever told me about Action being a mile high & the Intonation being out makes any difference. Nobody ever told me the better Guitar you start with the better chance you have of learning to play faster & easier. Nobody ever told that structural things like warped Necks would make it difficult to tune, play & sound good..

I wish somebody would have...... That's why I'm telling it like it is from my experience & perspective.

It wasn't until years later a buddy who played Guitar started explaining all that stuff to me it made sense & I persude it again with much better success...

[Embenny]

The first Guitar I owned when I was about 10 convinced me I could never play.. It seemed like I couldn't do anything right & my fingers bled from practicing so hard. I quit for years. Figured it wasn't meant to be.

Nobody ever told me about Action being a mile high & the Intonation being out makes any difference. Nobody ever told me the better Guitar you start with the better chance you have of learning to play faster & easier. Nobody ever told that structural things like warped Necks would make it difficult to tune, play & sound good..

I wish somebody would have...... That's why I'm telling it like it is from my experience & perspective.

It wasn't until years later a buddy who played Guitar started explaining all that stuff to me it made sense & I persude it again with much better success...

I have met VMJMs with bad setups, but never a warped neck. That is not a common issue among them. Not impossible, I suppose. I don't know the backstory of which guitars you tried and what exactly was wrong with them, but there are many thousands of VMJMs/VMJags out there and the ones I have encountered have had very good "bones" and just some hardware that was on the cheap side.

Most of us swap things around like bridges, pickups, pickguards, etc, because we find modding enjoyable, not because we dislike the stock instrument.

I have bought 4 Squiers in the last 4 years, and the necks/bodies were all fantastic on all of them. I changed out the pickups in 2 of them because that's what I do...my MIJ, MIM and MIA Offsets have shared similar fates.

Like I said earlier, I'm using my $150 Squier Bullet Mustang interchangeably with my American-made Fenders and I don't miss the others when I'm playing with it. The days of overseas guitars being subpar instruments with "mile-high" action are gone. Plenty of American guitars on the rack need setups, and Squiers are much the same, but I will also point out that one must have a very thorough knowledge of neck angle, relief, nut slotting and fret leveling before being able to conclude that a bad setup is due to a warped neck. I can't tell you how many guitars I've bought cheap because people "can't get it to stop buzzing" and jacked the action up high when they just needed the nut re-cut/re-slotted and a fret leveling.

[Larsongs]

The first Guitar I owned when I was about 10 convinced me I could never play.. It seemed like I couldn't do anything right & my fingers bled from practicing so hard. I quit for years. Figured it wasn't meant to be.

Nobody ever told me about Action being a mile high & the Intonation being out makes any difference. Nobody ever told me the better Guitar you start with the better chance you have of learning to play faster & easier. Nobody ever told that structural things like warped Necks would make it difficult to tune, play & sound good..

I wish somebody would have...... That's why I'm telling it like it is from my experience & perspective.

It wasn't until years later a buddy who played Guitar started explaining all that stuff to me it made sense & I persude it again with much better success...

I have met VMJMs with bad setups, but never a warped neck. That is not a common issue among them. Not impossible, I suppose. I don't know the backstory of which guitars you tried and what exactly was wrong with them, but there are many thousands of VMJMs/VMJags out there and the ones I have encountered have had very good "bones" and just some hardware that was on the cheap side.

Most of us swap things around like bridges, pickups, pickguards, etc, because we find modding enjoyable, not because we dislike the stock instrument.

I have bought 4 Squiers in the last 4 years, and the necks/bodies were all fantastic on all of them. I changed out the pickups in 2 of them because that's what I do...my MIJ, MIM and MIA Offsets have shared similar fates.

Like I said earlier, I'm using my $150 Squier Bullet Mustang interchangeably with my American-made Fenders and I don't miss the others when I'm playing with it. The days of overseas guitars being subpar instruments with "mile-high" action are gone. Plenty of American guitars on the rack need setups, and Squiers are much the same, but I will also point out that one must have a very thorough knowledge of neck angle, relief, nut slotting and fret leveling before being able to conclude that a bad setup is due to a warped neck. I can't tell you how many guitars I've bought cheap because people "can't get it to stop buzzing" and jacked the action up high when they just needed the nut re-cut/re-slotted and a fret leveling.

After playing for more than 30 years, working in Music Stores & owning about 100 Guitars I have a bit of knowledge about Guitars. I know a warped Neck when I see it. I do know how to some Mods, can do good Setups & some Repairs. I know I could build Guitars if I wanted to. It ain't my thing. I buy them to play.

As I've said many times before in this age almost all Guitars of every price range are pretty good to excellent out of the box. In my experience with 3 brand new 2017 VMJM's they were exceptions to the rule. I can't believe I could get 3 brand new in the wrapper bad Guitars in a row from 2 different Sellers. I own about 35 Guitars by most of the Big's & some Boutique Guitars of all shapes, sizes & price ranges from Squier CV Teles, which is excellent, to Custom Shop Special Built.

[Larry Mal]

I think we might be a little hard on Lars at this point. He can talk about his experience I would imagine.

[NICQ]

If he'd do that in a normal fashion without blowing it totally out of proportion every time someone talks about a SQVM no one would care I guess.. but warning beginners numerous times of having to go through 6 "broken" Squiers until eventually getting one that's fixable and playable is ridiculous and just not THE TRUTH!!! Maybe he had real bad luck and/or is extremely picky - most people who bought a VM had a different experience and that's also a fact that shouldn't be distorted by him on every occasion..

[Larsongs]

If he'd do that in a normal fashion without blowing it totally out of proportion every time someone talks about a SQVM no one would care I guess.. but warning beginners numerous times of having to go through 6 "broken" Squiers until eventually getting one that's fixable and playable is ridiculous and just not THE TRUTH!!! Maybe he had real bad luck and/or is extremely picky - most people who bought a VM had a different experience and that's also a fact that shouldn't be distorted by him on every occasion..

Thanks Larry Mal..

NICQ, Look who's blowing things out of proportion! I didn't have 6? Where's that coming from? I never said they weren't fixable. I just didn't want New Guitars with broken Parts or a warped Neck especially when Fender wouldn't repair under warranty. I never said that there must be some good ones. I distorted nothing. It was my experience & I can't believe serious experienced Guitar Players haven't experienced something similar with VMJM's in 2017.

I just think that young Players should have all the information before making a decision that they might regret.

From what I've read here 90% or more pretty much Rebuild these VM Guitars into.......good Guitars. Some do minimal Mods & some use them as a Platform to completely rebuild. Regardless if it's fun or cool or whatever, it shouldn't be necessary with brand new Guitar.

Pretty much all my other Guitars needed nothing but a Pro Set up. Some didn't even need that...

[NICQ]

If that is true I'd snatch up that new one right now!

I've bought 6 new Squier JM's. The Setups on all of them were the worst of any Electric Guitar I've ever seen. The Action was a mile high & Intonation was way off. 5 of the 6 had something broken or malfunctioning brand new out of the wrapper.

The 6th one was a JMJM which required a lot of work Setting up to be a good Player. Once Setup they are good sounding Guitars.

My advise, Grab that new one before it's gone!

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=106320

[NICQ]

Lars, don't get me wrong - I couldn't care less about how many guitars someone on here has and normally I do not start an argument about every single word someone says but you've made such a fuss about it in numerous threads that I couldn't help but remember..

That was just the most recent from a week ago - and yes you have added that they were fixable just recently..

[redchapterjubilee]

It's hard for me to believe I'm the only one who's gone into several Music Stores & picked up several VMJM's or JMJM's & the Action & Intonation wasn't a mile off.

Heh, y'all should go into Austin Vintage Guitar some time. They have probably a dozen vintage '60s Jazzmasters on the wall and they are all set up horribly. The new ones with factory setup are actually a little bit better. Truth is most guitar stores have no idea how to set up an offset guitar. I've bought the majority of my offsets used on Ebay or Reverb and they usually arrive with very amusing setups. The Gibsons, the Strats and Teles I've had? Those usually arrive in far better shape.