Why should I get a FENDER Jazzmaster?

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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Larsongs
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Re: Why should I get a FENDER Jazzmaster?

Post by Larsongs » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:54 am

NICQ wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:09 am
Larsongs wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:47 am
If that is true I'd snatch up that new one right now!

I've bought 6 new Squier JM's. The Setups on all of them were the worst of any Electric Guitar I've ever seen. The Action was a mile high & Intonation was way off. 5 of the 6 had something broken or malfunctioning brand new out of the wrapper.

The 6th one was a JMJM which required a lot of work Setting up to be a good Player. Once Setup they are good sounding Guitars.

My advise, Grab that new one before it's gone!
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=106320
That was in reference not only to the 3 VMJM's but also 3 other Squier JMJM's I went thru to get a good one ........ I kept 1 of the JMJM's & none of the VMJM's. A total of 6 Squier JM's.

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Re: Why should I get a FENDER Jazzmaster?

Post by sirspens » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:52 pm

Got busy with work, and woah, guys!

I'm declaring this the winner of the thread, I think.
Mad-Mike wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:54 am
I look at it like this, when you buy a Fender Jaguar or Fender Jazzmaster with the proper Fender name at the beginning, you are paying for a 100% completed and working professional instrument that you don't need to screw with out of the box to get it to play right. For a lot of players, this is excellent because not all guitar players are tech savvy to their instrument, and when it comes to spending $800-3000 on a Jag or Jazz - then I'm more likely to pay the $120 up front for a proper setup from a competent tech if I can't do it myself if you get my drift.

In my case though, tinkering is a part of what I love about these instruments. So what you don't pay for the Squier is made up in tinkering/modding/tweaking the guitar to perfection - and this includes correcting QC guffaws when/if in your abilities. I don't see anything wrong with buying or modding a squier - if the VM Jazzmaster had been out in 2008, it would have been a one page post NGD instead of six months and $800 worth of me buying parts and building a Jazzmaster using off the shelf-parts. While I'm far more satisfied with the result my $800 build gives me, at the same time, there is a time when exactly what you want vs. what would be more convenient/easier comes into question - I built that guitar in a STUDIO APARTMENT. Most people would not risk their damage deposit like that.
Makes a lot of sense. Some people just want to buy a guitar that is everything. That would annoy the shit out of me. What would I do with it? Just play it?

Also... I love this. I tell people "don't use common sense on uncommon problems."
mbene085 wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:36 pm
My point is, Some things you can't explain. Like why we're all embracing conventional wisdom in a world that's so unconventional.
Thanks to everyone else for your insights and opinions. And special thanks to mackerelmint.

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Re: Why should I get a FENDER Jazzmaster?

Post by sirspens » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:56 pm

redchapterjubilee wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:58 am
Larsongs wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:57 am
It's hard for me to believe I'm the only one who's gone into several Music Stores & picked up several VMJM's or JMJM's & the Action & Intonation wasn't a mile off.
Heh, y'all should go into Austin Vintage Guitar some time. They have probably a dozen vintage '60s Jazzmasters on the wall and they are all set up horribly. The new ones with factory setup are actually a little bit better.
I live in Austin. I've never been there, but I've heard some bad things about it.

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Re: Why should I get a FENDER Jazzmaster?

Post by mackerelmint » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:20 pm

sirspens wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:52 pm


Thanks to everyone else for your insights and opinions. And special thanks to mackerelmint.
Well, you're welcome, though all I really did was piss on poor Lars from a great height. :unsure: Glad you found the thread enlightening, I guess.
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Re: Why should I get a FENDER Jazzmaster?

Post by Larsongs » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:42 pm

mackerelmint wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:20 pm
sirspens wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:52 pm


Thanks to everyone else for your insights and opinions. And special thanks to mackerelmint.
Well, you're welcome, though all I really did was piss on poor Lars from a great height. :unsure: Glad you found the thread enlightening, I guess.
You can't Piss on me.. I didn't sink $800.00 into a Guitar that I would be lucky to get $300 for when I decide I need a better one. Especially when I could've bought a great Guitar like a Lacquer 60 or a Road Worn for about $800.00 & keep it a few years & when I'm ready to upgrade be able to recoup most of my investment.

I'm good. I've got the best Jaguar & Jazzmaster Fender offers. I'm very pleased with both of my AV65's. 2 Serious Professional Quality & Performing Guitars for both Live & Recording. I also have fun with my JMJM... though, I use it mostly for practice & Jams. I don't use it for Pro Performances or Recording.

I will do my best to refrain from sharing my experience with or saying anything negative about VMJM's in the future. I know you guys are very sensitive & only want to believe that they are wonderful. Be my Guests to that Kool-Aid....

Meanwhile, you guys can mechanic on your Guitars & I'll be playing mine....

Rock n Roll

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Re: Why should I get a FENDER Jazzmaster?

Post by mackerelmint » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:11 pm

Look, it's not that anyone here takes exception to you not liking VMs. It's not that you're wrong for not wanting to have to do a little work to get them set up the way you like. Like I said before, that's entirely your prerogative. It's that people took the time to post their real experiences in a thread hundreds of pages long, and then took more time to do the same for you personally, telling you what you could expect, warts and all, even after you said you'd read that whole thread but still asked the same questions. And then when you had your VMs in hand, you acted scandalized that they were as you were told to expect. It's this total disregard for everything that was shared with the board at large and you specifically. You don't seem to have any regard for the time people took specifically for your benefit. And yes, I do find it a little annoying that you never fail to swoop in and badmouth the VM line when a chance presents itself, but really, it's the plain old stupidity of your perceived predicament that I find so irksome: it's like someone could tell you shit stinks and then you're indignant that it doesn't smell like roses when you take a big whiff. It's a problem of your own making, but you're dogmatic about it toward others. Who wouldn't find that annoying?

Man, and I thought I was done dumping on you. It's not like I'm enjoying it. It's just... come on, man.
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Re: Why should I get a FENDER Jazzmaster?

Post by Larsongs » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:20 am

mackerelmint wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:11 pm
Look, it's not that anyone here takes exception to you not liking VMs. It's not that you're wrong for not wanting to have to do a little work to get them set up the way you like. Like I said before, that's entirely your prerogative. It's that people took the time to post their real experiences in a thread hundreds of pages long, and then took more time to do the same for you personally, telling you what you could expect, warts and all, even after you said you'd read that whole thread but still asked the same questions. And then when you had your VMs in hand, you acted scandalized that they were as you were told to expect. It's this total disregard for everything that was shared with the board at large and you specifically. You don't seem to have any regard for the time people took specifically for your benefit. And yes, I do find it a little annoying that you never fail to swoop in and badmouth the VM line when a chance presents itself, but really, it's the plain old stupidity of your perceived predicament that I find so irksome: it's like someone could tell you shit stinks and then you're indignant that it doesn't smell like roses when you take a big whiff. It's a problem of your own making, but you're dogmatic about it toward others. Who wouldn't find that annoying?

Man, and I thought I was done dumping on you. It's not like I'm enjoying it. It's just... come on, man.
Holy Mackeral! Do you really want to take this to a personal level? I was talking about Guitars. But you want to attack me? If that's really where you want go I can certainly oblige you.

Why do you keep making stuff up? I'm guilty for calling 3 Turds, Turds. I've also said I'm sure there are good ones as many here have them.

I'll be honest, I didn't read the hundreds of pages about VM's. After about 10 pages I had little interest of page after page of, if only they made Pink Guitars with Mint Pickguads , or HB's in JM's & Jags etc. & all that.....

Besides you, what's really annoying is that this Forum doesn't seem to allow Freedom Of Speech.... Everything is cool as long as you don't criticize Fender or Squier..... Answer this. Do you work for Fender? Or are you a self appointed Fender Defender? Why is it such a big deal to you if someone doesn't share your opinions & your way of thinking.

If the truth hurts the Sales of VM's why not build better VM's? There is no F'n reason why they shouldn't have QC on par with Asian Epiphones, Gretsch & others. They really should but The truth is they don't.

The OP posed a question. The answer, there are xlnt new "Fender" JM's available for about the same $$$$$ you'd sink into rebuilding your Squier VM to make it a good Guitar & when you're done it's just a high priced Squier..... Money well spent? Very subjective IMO. More than likely that modded Squier will leave you wanting more... Good luck recouping your $$$$$$ This is my view & opinion based on my experiences. Which for some reason you think shouldn't be allowed?

Dude, get a life......

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Re: Why should I get a FENDER Jazzmaster?

Post by Mad-Mike » Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:30 am

Larsongs wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:42 pm
You can't Piss on me.. I didn't sink $800.00 into a Guitar that I would be lucky to get $300 for when I decide I need a better one. Especially when I could've bought a great Guitar like a Lacquer 60 or a Road Worn for about $800.00 & keep it a few years & when I'm ready to upgrade be able to recoup most of my investment.

Meanwhile, you guys can mechanic on your Guitars & I'll be playing mine....
Just to thow my own out there for some diversity.....

The cheaper the guitar, the cheaper the replacements and more manual labor one must expect.

For example, I buy a Squier VM Jaguar - which is actually my preferred go-to off-the-rack because I'd just be doing the same things to a more expensive CIJ, MIJ, or MIM otherwise and then some. In total - about $15.15 spent for the strings because I already have the wax pot (a L'Oreal Wax Bath, lol), and the rest is just cosmetics or maintenance as we go. The $.15 is for the humbucker return spring I use for the low and high E saddles to stabilize the stock bridge.

Regimen = tighten claws to pickups and wax pot, stronger springs on low and high E saddles, string up with Paradigm .009's, perform full setup and intonation - done.

I did all that to my CIJ Jaguar, I never have to even bother with it anymore. It's always ready to play, never buzzes, gets controlled feedback like Brian May's Red Special does, and never gives me any problems. It's also been running with the expensive strings on it for a long time and still sounds nice and bright. The only difference is the original owner swapped the pickups for Cool Rails and the saddles are the original Jag-style saddles and not the Modded Mustang Bridge saddles the VM's use (which are better IMHO). I also have a Squier VM Bass VI - same deal, never have to dick with it, at all. All I had to do was swap the low E for a .105 and do some minor adjustments to everything and it's been dead on for the last 3 years since I bought it new.

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Re: Why should I get a FENDER Jazzmaster?

Post by jesterpunk68 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:11 am


Holy Mackeral! Do you really want to take this to a personal level? I was talking about Guitars. But you want to attack me? If that's really where you want go I can certainly oblige you.

Why do you keep making stuff up? I'm guilty for calling 3 Turds, Turds. I've also said I'm sure there are good ones as many here have them.

I'll be honest, I didn't read the hundreds of pages about VM's. After about 10 pages I had little interest of page after page of, if only they made Pink Guitars with Mint Pickguads , or HB's in JM's & Jags etc. & all that.....

Besides you, what's really annoying is that this Forum doesn't seem to allow Freedom Of Speech.... Everything is cool as long as you don't criticize Fender or Squier..... Answer this. Do you work for Fender? Or are you a self appointed Fender Defender? Why is it such a big deal to you if someone doesn't share your opinions & your way of thinking.

If the truth hurts the Sales of VM's why not build better VM's? There is no F'n reason why they shouldn't have QC on par with Asian Epiphones, Gretsch & others. They really should but The truth is they don't.

The OP posed a question. The answer, there are xlnt new "Fender" JM's available for about the same $$$$$ you'd sink into rebuilding your Squier VM to make it a good Guitar & when you're done it's just a high priced Squier..... Money well spent? Very subjective IMO. More than likely that modded Squier will leave you wanting more... Good luck recouping your $$$$$$ This is my view & opinion based on my experiences. Which for some reason you think shouldn't be allowed?

Dude, get a life......


There are pages and pages of pros playing what you consider cheap guitars on this forum here

viewtopic.php?t=82123

A video of Troy Van Leeuwan talking about his squier here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfPxPzjPD9A


Also for your free speech claim.

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Re: Why should I get a FENDER Jazzmaster?

Post by AtomicPumpkin » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:29 am

I'll throw my hat into the ring here on the issue.

I say ultimately, to each his/her own -- there is definitely no right or wrong answer here.

Everybody's budget and requirements for an instrument are different. If all you can afford is the Squier line, then you buy one and make it work for you, one way or another. On the other end of the spectrum, if you have a lot of money to burn and can afford 4k plus for a vintage instrument and you think that's going to scratch that itch, I say go for it. And then there's everything in between. While it is true that the higher you go in price, quality generally goes up, but there is also the law of diminishing returns to take into consideration in regards to cost. It is also true that there are stinkers to be found at every price range. Most people on here are aware of the fact that there are vintage guitars from every year that are both good and bad -- not every craftsmen is created equal; every piece of wood is different and will add its own characteristics to an instrument for good, bad, or neutral. The same can be said for the modern instruments, as well.

I'll inject my own personal experience in here, albeit limited. My first offset was a sonic blue Vintage Modified Jazzmaster. I got it used off a kid here in Utah for a decent price. That guitar was definitely a little rough around the edges, but I had a blast bringing it up to a level that I was satisfied with. The neck was a little crooked, so I had to sand the neck pocket a bit to get it straight. I replaced the pickguard with a JMJM gold anodized one. I replaced all the pots and switches with CTS and Switchcraft ones respectively. I replaced the caps with Orange Drops and the original wire with vintage cloth wire. Basswood is definitely soft compared to alder and I had a few stripped screws, but those were an easy fix with some hardwood shavings and some wood glue. It had some uneven frets that would cause buzzing and the tremolo was garbage on my particular guitar -- I was considering paying for a fret level and getting an AVRI trem, but I finally realized that I was never going to get my money back as far a resale value goes, so I bagged putting any additional money into it. I ultimately ended up giving it to a friend who was going through a rough patch because it felt like the right thing to do at the time -- no regrets on this decision. I basically cut my teeth on this guitar and it was a great platform for learning how to work on guitars and how to do set-ups and what not.

I thought it was going to be easy to find a replacement guitar for the above, but it has been a lengthy and time consuming process. I have been through several guitars since and returned all but one. I tried a JMJM, a standard MIM telecaster, one of the new line of Duo-Sonics, a Reverend Spacehawk, a Road Worn Jazzmaster, and a Partsmaster (AV65 body with a VMJM neck). All went back because I either didn't bond with them or they had issues that I didn't want to take the time to deal with. I finally settled on one of the new CME exclusive Olympic white 60s Jazzmasters and I absolutely LOVE it!

The CME 60s Jazzmaster is a very finely crafted instrument -- the best that I've had yet. You can tell that whoever put it together did so with great care and attention to detail and it's also not too heavy, but what I would consider to be just right (7lbs 10oz). All that said, though, it is not perfect and since I like to tinker I have already started to make some changes. I replaced the trem with an AVRI unit and replaced the collet and arm with a Staytrem. I've replace all the wiring with vintage correct cloth wiring and the caps with Orange Drops. I also put an aluminum shield under the pickguard to reduce (not eliminate) hum. There are maybe a couple more changes that I'm considering, but we'll see.

This ended up being a little more long-winded than I wanted but I wanted to clear the air a bit here and put in my two cents.

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Re: Why should I get a FENDER Jazzmaster?

Post by Singlebladepickup » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:41 am

To sum up everything up to this point:

Squier: QC is iffy; some diamonds, some turds. Super customizable, and DIY setup/mods can transform it into something as good or better than a Fender. Resale is decent, but ability to recoup money spent on mods is questionable. If you're buying to play it, this doesn't matter.

Fender: QC is iffy, some diamonds, some turds. Generally better than Squier out the gate. Top dollar gets a professional level instrument with no need to mod, but you may still need setup. Paying more money upfront for a Fender seems like a waste to some who plan to mod the instrument to their liking no matter what the factory specs are. Resale is possibly better than squier, but ability to recoup money spent on mods is questionable. It is also more likely that you will get less than you paid on resale since it's used, and the more money you've spent initially the more you may end up losing on resale. Finish and body wood are better.


I don't know why this one got so heated. Lars likes the expensive model and has gotten some Squiers he considers turds. Is it that unusual? Someone with more DIY knowledge might have been able to overcome the limitations of those turds and make them MIM quality for very little extra money. A lot of people get fantastic playing Squiers that they could use for professional purposes, despite Lars' poor success ratio. People who mod squiers can get a better guitar for less money, which some people think makes the people who pay more for the "real thing" suckers. Who cares.

To answer the question: Get a Fender if you want one, can afford one, don't want the finish or body wood that comes on squiers, don't want to make any modifications or setup your own guitar, feel like it's a good enough deal for what you are paying, and don't want to make a partscaster (better option imo).

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Re: Why should I get a FENDER Jazzmaster?

Post by higgsblossom » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:50 am

If a JMJM is good enough for J Mascis to play on stage, it‘s good enough for anyone. Enough said.

But if you want the real thing, any Squier will always be a copy. That‘s about all there is to say about the whole topic.
"500€? That's the price of a J Mascis Jazzmaster!"

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Re: Why should I get a FENDER Jazzmaster?

Post by bacca51 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:09 am

higgsblossom wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:50 am
If a JMJM is good enough for J Mascis to play on stage, it‘s good enough for anyone. Enough said.

But if you want the real thing, any Squier will always be a copy. That‘s about all there is to say about the whole topic.
While I agree with you, you can't abide by this law. The best sounding instruments/gear that artists have they usually save for the studio. I think it'd be really difficult to tell the difference of between a JMJM and an American JM (with boutique p90 style pickups) on stage, especially through a nice amp The amp is really important, my danelectro 12 string sounds pretty awful through a little practice amp but sounds great through my twin reverb.
I see artists playing cheap gear on stage all the time, but it doesn't mean this is the gear that they use when they want to get the best sound and the best performance they can.

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Re: Why should I get a FENDER Jazzmaster?

Post by mackerelmint » Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:05 pm

Larsongs wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:20 am


Why do you keep making stuff up? I'm guilty for calling 3 Turds, Turds.
It's been 3, it's been 6, it's been structural issues, it's been setup issues, I have no idea what the truth is here since the number seems to have grown over time and the exact issue seems to have gone back and forth. I haven't made anything up. I've just taken issue with you having been told to expect to need to do some work on it and then complaining about having to do exactly that after you bought it, as if nobody had told you. You got three that were irredeemably unsound, and three more that you didn't want to have to set up? OK, I believe you. And like I have said twice before, you not wanting a guitar that you'd have to set up is entirely your own prerogative. So why did you keep buying squiers? It's like stepping on a rake repeatedly and being surprised every time you get whacked in the face. It's not the rake's fault.

No fender shill here, I'd imagine that if I were I'd be right there with you telling everyone to buy an AV65 even when it's not a helpful answer to their questions.

As for your freedom of speech, plenty of people on here criticize fender and squier. It's all over the place. The only one singling you out is arguably me, and that's, once again, not because we have different ideas about what we want, but it's about you evidently not paying attention when people took the time answer your questions and then you braying about how disappointed you were when a guitar needed setup right out of the box. Some other seem to agree with me on that. As for Squier's QC not being up to par with that of their competitors, you're probably right. Like I said before, I got a complete lemon of a VM the first time out. And Epiphone's been making better guitars than Gibson for years, hardware aside. That said, Sweetwater's a good place to get a squier. They inspect and set the guitars up right, and I've heard that because of that, Fender doesn't send them no duds. That's where my ace VM came from.

I have no idea what stuff it is that I'm supposed to be making up. I'm just going on what you've said yourself to the best of my ability since it's been amended over time. I was finished raking you over the coals days ago, I don't enjoy arguing about this in the least. It made sense to chime in and flip you some shit for the setup complaints given the relevant history and you warning yet another querant against throwing money away, some pile-on occurred which was harsher than necessary, and I even expressed some regret at where it went, but your response to that was to pour gas on the fire. I'm glad you have guitars you're happy with. I'm not happy you got 3 iredeemable duds, I've been there and it's a hassle. I do take exception to you accusing me of making stuff up. I'm certainly not trying to. I sincerely apologize for whatever I've gotten wrong, but I stand by my rake comment and my conviction that you've really kind of disrespected everyone who took the time to tell you what to expect ahead of time, even after you didn't read that thread you said you'd read.

I hope we can leave things at that.
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Re: Why should I get a FENDER Jazzmaster?

Post by Larsongs » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:55 pm

mackerelmint wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:05 pm
Larsongs wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:20 am


Why do you keep making stuff up? I'm guilty for calling 3 Turds, Turds.
It's been 3, it's been 6, it's been structural issues, it's been setup issues, I have no idea what the truth is here since the number seems to have grown over time and the exact issue seems to have gone back and forth. I haven't made anything up. I've just taken issue with you having been told to expect to need to do some work on it and then complaining about having to do exactly that after you bought it, as if nobody had told you. You got three that were irredeemably unsound, and three more that you didn't want to have to set up? OK, I believe you. And like I have said twice before, you not wanting a guitar that you'd have to set up is entirely your own prerogative. So why did you keep buying squiers? It's like stepping on a rake repeatedly and being surprised every time you get whacked in the face. It's not the rake's fault.

No fender shill here, I'd imagine that if I were I'd be right there with you telling everyone to buy an AV65 even when it's not a helpful answer to their questions.

As for your freedom of speech, plenty of people on here criticize fender and squier. It's all over the place. The only one singling you out is arguably me, and that's, once again, not because we have different ideas about what we want, but it's about you evidently not paying attention when people took the time answer your questions and then you braying about how disappointed you were when a guitar needed setup right out of the box. Some other seem to agree with me on that. As for Squier's QC not being up to par with that of their competitors, you're probably right. Like I said before, I got a complete lemon of a VM the first time out. And Epiphone's been making better guitars than Gibson for years, hardware aside. That said, Sweetwater's a good place to get a squier. They inspect and set the guitars up right, and I've heard that because of that, Fender doesn't send them no duds. That's where my ace VM came from.

I have no idea what stuff it is that I'm supposed to be making up. I'm just going on what you've said yourself to the best of my ability since it's been amended over time. I was finished raking you over the coals days ago, I don't enjoy arguing about this in the least. It made sense to chime in and flip you some shit for the setup complaints given the relevant history and you warning yet another querant against throwing money away, some pile-on occurred which was harsher than necessary, and I even expressed some regret at where it went, but your response to that was to pour gas on the fire. I'm glad you have guitars you're happy with. I'm not happy you got 3 iredeemable duds, I've been there and it's a hassle. I do take exception to you accusing me of making stuff up. I'm certainly not trying to. I sincerely apologize for whatever I've gotten wrong, but I stand by my rake comment and my conviction that you've really kind of disrespected everyone who took the time to tell you what to expect ahead of time, even after you didn't read that thread you said you'd read.

I hope we can leave things at that.
If you are going to make numerous accusations you should at least read the comments I actually made rather than make up whatever suits your so called pissing on me giving me shit ramblings. "Among other things", I have said repeatedly. There were 6. The other 3 were JMJM's of which I kept one. While I do play the one I kept it isn't my go to cheapie Guitar. My CV Tele was sweet right out of the Box....& I only had to buy 1.

In my experience of buying over a hundred Guitars of all Shapes, Styles & Price ranges I have never experienced anything like these VM Guitars. And then get to shit about it is unbelievable!!!!!

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