St.Vincent's Ernie Ball Music Man Signature Guitar

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Re: St.Vincent's Ernie Ball Music Man Signature Guitar

Postby shadowplay » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:15 am



I think it's fine her stating her personal experiences, she's writing from her personal experience as a well regarded musician. You might disagree but she clearly feels this and From what I've read of Cate over the years she seems a pretty grounded and fair minded person. I guess you've read about Bjork addressing the perception that her collaborators do all the musical heavy lifting, something that always came across in reviews to me.

In my opinion female musicians are often undervalued or pushed into a special ladies only ante room. Even this forum has decended down the girls with guitars, favourite female bassists, female guitarists alley, where women are seen As playing in a different pool from male musicians.

I personally don't like Annie Clarks music which I think is a bit over busy but I think she's a pretty positive talented character and am willing to accept that while I don't get her, it's a taste not talent issue. Sadly she's probably best known because of who her girlfriend is to most people, which tallls another story.

D
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Re: St.Vincent's Ernie Ball Music Man Signature Guitar

Postby SempreSami » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:47 am

Kent wrote:My main point is how the article asserts much but provides little to no evidence. You've done exactly the same. If that works for you and how you negotiate the world, then that is what works for you.

Cate le Bon has opened for and is friends with Annie Clark so of course she's going to be complimentary about her (granted I think ClB is the better guitarist).
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Re: St.Vincent's Ernie Ball Music Man Signature Guitar

Postby ifallalot » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:49 am

The Sterling ones are available.....

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... AqnH8P8HAQ
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Re: St.Vincent's Ernie Ball Music Man Signature Guitar

Postby honeyiscool » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:47 am

Kent wrote:
honeyiscool wrote:I don't know how it could even be argued that Annie Clark is technically brilliant and inventive. That's just fact. Whether you like her innovations is another matter, but it's a fact that she's doing really innovative things, and at the core of her innovations is her unique style of play. She's not unlike Tom Morello in that sense: can play traditionally, chooses not to.

My main point is how the article asserts much but provides little to no evidence. You've done exactly the same. If that works for you and how you negotiate the world, then that is what works for you.

So you say. But all music critique is so subjective and rooted in opinion that it is my belief that Annie Clark being an innovative and brilliant guitarist is completely self evident once you listen to her playing, whereas, say, Slash, he's good but is he innovative? I don't know. I say this in the sense of being able to digest what they're doing and figure it out easily. Many of the best known guitarists do difficult sounding things that are actually rather simply put together. Things follow a shape, patterns, boxes. I find that Clark does things that can't be figured out right away. And she plays with a bit of abandon which means she does mess up a lot, but I don't think this necessarily keeps her from technical excellence. I think the mistakes are an important part of her style.

So me personally? As a classical pianist turned guitarist, I can figure out a Jimmy Page or a Slash part pretty easily. It's technically difficult (sometimes) but it's musically simple. I don't feel that way about Clark. It takes time for me to figure her music out. There's something going on there. Her writing doesn't follow the whole multiples of 4 thing either. And while one could strike her innovations as mistakes that work, I don't think they are. I think they're on purpose. Or maybe because she went to music school, I'm seeing innovation and complexity where there is none. But I see it, nonetheless.

I admit that I favor guitarists who don't play in a pentatonic box over those that do. Probably because I think it's a waste of musical talent when you're otherwise brilliant but you have one scale you can play. One of my favorite guitarists basically plays fun sounding things that are fast but clearly just hammer-ons and pull offs with clever note choices and capos in the right place. I find that to be technically innovative and brilliant, too. And of course I use pentatonic boxes and typical guitar patterns. I just don't rely on them. I want to be more like Annie Clark. I love shredders, too, but at the end of the day, my #1 guitarist is Tanya Donelly so that probably says something about me.

But see, have I actually provided evidence? I just don't know that it's possible. It's all opinion. But just because something is subjective doesn't make it impossible to establish reality. If one person sees things one way, it's possible to declare it and know that the listener or the reader will know that it's opinion. In a world where most people favor Drake over Mozart, any fact over musical excellence isn't even possible. And I'm not saying that Drake sucks because that's also impossible to declare as fact. I'm saying that under a truly objective standard, we probably can't even truly establish why Mozart is good. And yes, I said it's fact that Annie is a brilliant guitarist. But since objectivity isn't even possible, I'm just saying that I don't even see it possible to see it any other way unless you have an agenda to be contrarian. Like I said, fact is perhaps more like musical consensus. If enough people see it one way, it becomes fact. Mozart had many critics in his life. Many classic films were dismissed at first. I'm just convinced that in a few decades when people aren't annoyed by her persona, they'll see that she was brilliant. Because it's true for me.
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Re: St.Vincent's Ernie Ball Music Man Signature Guitar

Postby honeyiscool » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:05 am

shadowplay wrote:I think it's fine her stating her personal experiences, she's writing from her personal experience as a well regarded musician. You might disagree but she clearly feels this and From what I've read of Cate over the years she seems a pretty grounded and fair minded person. I guess you've read about Bjork addressing the perception that her collaborators do all the musical heavy lifting, something that always came across in reviews to me.

In my opinion female musicians are often undervalued or pushed into a special ladies only ante room. Even this forum has decended down the girls with guitars, favourite female bassists, female guitarists alley, where women are seen As playing in a different pool from male musicians.

I personally don't like Annie Clarks music which I think is a bit over busy but I think she's a pretty positive talented character and am willing to accept that while I don't get her, it's a taste not talent issue. Sadly she's probably best known because of who her girlfriend is to most people, which tallls another story.

D
Great post.

People only compare girls to girls and guys to guys. Every high pitched girl eventually gets compared to Gwen Stefani, no matter how not ska pop they are. Every girl bassist gets compared to Tina Weymouth even if they actually play more like Paul McCartney. Etc.
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Re: St.Vincent's Ernie Ball Music Man Signature Guitar

Postby Jaguar018 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:40 am

honeyiscool wrote:People only compare girls to girls and guys to guys. Every high pitched girl eventually gets compared to Gwen Stefani, no matter how not ska pop they are. Every girl bassist gets compared to Tina Weymouth even if they actually play more like Paul McCartney. Etc.


For me I compare all women to Ann and Nancy Wilson. She's a Nancy; she's a bit Ann and Nancy; she's Ann dominant. It works really well. That happens a lot in the NBA too. Black guys are generally compared to other black guys, and whites to whites. Some people with a deeper understanding of things can see beyond race and just look at raw stats, skills, and body types, but it's lazy human nature. I've liked so many women singers I mostly just compare them to themselves as I do with guys. There are a few benchmark voices, like say, Robert Plant, or Debbie Harry that one can easily recognize. Belters, breathy, etc. .

I think I said the same thing before in this thread about St. Vincent that meshes with what Shadowplay says: I don't really dig her as much as I wish I did, but I'm damn glad she's out there doing her thing. The more weird guitar players with cool guitars the better, and the more ladies playing and singing the happier I am.



[Shuffles off to play the same scale over and over again :-[ ]
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Re: St.Vincent's Ernie Ball Music Man Signature Guitar

Postby sears » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:29 pm

I can't imagine how much it must hurt a woman to play guitar or bass considering how much it hurts me.
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Re: St.Vincent's Ernie Ball Music Man Signature Guitar

Postby smalahove » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:20 am

honeyiscool wrote:And while one could strike her innovations as mistakes that work, I don't think they are.


I just wanted to point out (as I'm pretty sure you'd agree), mistakes is an intrinsic component (at the core) of innovation and most certainly, improvisation. A musical expression without mistakes can hardly be categorized as improvisation if it does not wonder of into the realm of the unknown - to the performer. Acknowledging that the subconscious also has a restrictive aspect is key (i.e. if you play on auto-pilot, the outcome is always predictable, thus no innovation nor impro): you have to consciously decide to make (deliberate) mistakes, i.e. try something new and see what happens and react accordingly, a dynamic process which will naturally rub many listeners the wrong way.

I haven't heard much from St Vincent, but my brief experience with her reminds me of a cross between Prince and NiN, but with a flavor of its own. In this video, her mastery of the instrument is self-evident: deliberate and repeated rythmic patters are a great indicator. Is she on par with the best djent or mathcore guitarists (meshuggah or AaL). No, she's not but her skill level is such it doesn't hinder her musical ideas (and innovation).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11JiKTyMm7M
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Re: St.Vincent's Ernie Ball Music Man Signature Guitar

Postby mijmog » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:38 am

I really, really like the guitar, regardless of which gender designed it, it could be made by giraffes for all I care. I would buy one and play it live as I'm frankly bored with every guitar shape available currently. The whole guitar design world needs to kick on, and this is step in the right direction. I love the sunburst finish, the jarring clash of this traditional finish with the design makes the instrument even better in my opinion. The idea of 3 mini hums with 5 way switching also appeals. Wonder how it would sound with some Lollar Firebird mini hums in there...

I just can't get on with the headstock, I'm surprised they plumped for the standard MM design, it just doesn't fit the rest of the instrument. I'd like to see it with a take on a reverse, more angular Firebird style headstock, in matching body colour too. But, I can imagine performance wise, the straight pull of the strings will count for a lot with the trem. There's probably some signature trademark thing going on probably, as its recognisable Music Man shape.
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Re: St.Vincent's Ernie Ball Music Man Signature Guitar

Postby honeyiscool » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:20 pm

The Music Man headstock is great. It is sturdy, functional, and keeps the guitar shorter.
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Re: St.Vincent's Ernie Ball Music Man Signature Guitar

Postby Grey » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:32 pm

honeyiscool wrote:keeps the guitar shorter.


Honestly never heard someone say "my guitar is too long!"
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Re: St.Vincent's Ernie Ball Music Man Signature Guitar

Postby honeyiscool » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:47 pm

Grey wrote:
honeyiscool wrote:keeps the guitar shorter.


Honestly never heard someone say "my guitar is too long!"

You've never had trouble fitting a Mustang into a Strat case?
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Re: St.Vincent's Ernie Ball Music Man Signature Guitar

Postby mediocreplayer » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:05 pm

Grey wrote:
honeyiscool wrote:keeps the guitar shorter.


Honestly never heard someone say "my guitar is too long!"


Have you ever talked to Firebird players?
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Re: St.Vincent's Ernie Ball Music Man Signature Guitar

Postby ifallalot » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:57 pm

I have to use shortscale bass gig bags for JMs and Jags!

Isn't that long?
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Re: St.Vincent's Ernie Ball Music Man Signature Guitar

Postby Grey » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:10 pm

honeyiscool wrote:You've never had trouble fitting a Mustang into a Strat case?


I've never wanted to put a Mustang in a Strat case. :wacko:

mediocreplayer wrote:Have you ever talked to Firebird players?


Now this one I do get. :D
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