Fender CAR Gold Undercoat

[Maulden7]

Does anybody by any chance know who supplied the gold undercoat / base coat paint used under the Fender Candy Apple Red finish from around 1965 - 1973/4, & if so the paint code itself?

Also, is there a modern equivalent?

Thanks very much for any replies.

[øøøøøøø]

I would see if Danocaster or Curtis Novak happen to know this info.

[Maulden7]

Ok, for information I've established that it was the stock Fender Firemist Gold custom colour. Actually another "car paint" used by Cadillac on the Eldorado model from 1964 - 65. Cadillac called it Firemist Saddle & the Fender colour was their own name for the same paint.

The DuPont colour code is 4579L.

What I'm not sure about is the flake used in the painting process. Seems like it was either 0.008in or 0.015in. I would plump for the 0.015in as that is a "standard" flake size, any thoughts?

[lamf37]

Ok, for information I've established that it was the stock Fender Firemist Gold custom colour. Actually another "car paint" used by Cadillac on the Eldorado model from 1964 - 65. Cadillac called it Firemist Saddle & the Fender colour was their own name for the same paint.

The DuPont colour code is 4579L.

What I'm not sure about is the flake used in the painting process. Seems like it was either 0.008in or 0.015in. I would plump for the 0.015in as that is a "standard" flake size, any thoughts?

for all my candy apple colours, if a gold basecoat is requested as opposed to a silver I use Crescent Bronze Extra Brilliant Deep Gold #255 with half a teaspoon of extra brilliant green gold #256 blended in, It's as near as dammit identical to firemist gold to my eyes.

[øøøøøøø]

Ok, for information I've established that it was the stock Fender Firemist Gold custom colour. Actually another "car paint" used by Cadillac on the Eldorado model from 1964 - 65. Cadillac called it Firemist Saddle & the Fender colour was their own name for the same paint.

The DuPont colour code is 4579L.

What I'm not sure about is the flake used in the painting process. Seems like it was either 0.008in or 0.015in. I would plump for the 0.015in as that is a "standard" flake size, any thoughts?

the CAR didn't have metal flake.

0.015 is rather large metal flake, and would give a very pronounced glitter effect.

[Maulden7]

Thanks for the comments. I'm actually asking the questions on behalf of a chap in Spain (who has contacted me having seen some of my own original guitars) & had no idea about the flake question myself. He wants to put flake in the gold undercoat, not in the CAR paint.

This guy (he's a furniture maker who also makes new guitars) has painted a CAR Strat with the earlier silver undercoat (that actual silver paint is still available from the same company as Fender used pre-65ish - still has the same paint code) & the result looks to be excellent. He kept sending me sprayed wood samples until he found a CAR mix that matched one of my unfaded original guitars exactly, & now wants to produce another Strat with the later gold undercoat.

[lamf37]

If you don't mind answering, would you happen to know the code for the original fender silver? And back to the gold, is he able to source crescent bronze powders, you can literally make any shade of gold from 3 or 4 of their various shades..light gold, dark gold, bronze and copper, literally every colour gold ypu would have ever seen on a guitar or car for that matter can be mixed up with them, their a swine to work with but I'm yet to see a gold come out of an aerosol or from a pre mixed tin that has the iridescence of crescent bronze powders

[øøøøøøø]

Thanks for the comments. I'm actually asking the questions on behalf of a chap in Spain (who has contacted me having seen some of my own original guitars) & had no idea about the flake question myself. He wants to put flake in the gold undercoat, not in the CAR paint.

This guy (he's a furniture maker who also makes new guitars) has painted a CAR Strat with the earlier silver undercoat (that actual silver paint is still available from the same company as Fender used pre-65ish - still has the same paint code) & the result looks to be excellent. He kept sending me sprayed wood samples until he found a CAR mix that matched one of my unfaded original guitars exactly, & now wants to produce another Strat with the later gold undercoat.

I'm a little confused.

If he wants to do metal flake (very NON original), why does it matter the original paint code for the gold undercoat?

99% of that will be covered up by the flake, anyway, and in any case the flake is SO non-original that it won't matter if you don't get more than 'close enough.'

[Maulden7]

No problem answering questions ..... if I can, but I'm the first to admit that I am very quickly out of my depth. I don't pretend to know anything in detail about this subject!

1. The early silver undercoat?
This is available from The MetalFlake Corporation in the USA - code is 132032 - & it's called Brilliant Silver Basecoat.

2. Crescent bronze powders?
Sorry, I have no idea.

3. Confusion?
Doesn't the Brilliant Silver undercoat contain flake as it comes? The guy's assumption seems to be that the gold undercoat should then also contain flake (looking at worn areas on original CAR Fenders from 66+ the gold certainly does look a bit sparkly) The question regarding flake size took me totally by surprise, & it was only after some investigation on the internet that I found out something about it & the various sizes available these days. What was available back in the 66-73 period I again have no idea. If you say that flake in the undercoat makes no difference then I believe you 100%. You have almost certainly forgotten more than I know about this subject!

I'm sure that an exact match for the Firemist Gold colour can be mixed up, but that wasn't the question I was originally asked.

It's clear that the chap in Spain is being totally meticulous, & wants to match the original Fender CAR painted guitar spec as far as is humanly possible. Whether that is all worth the effort & cost ....... I'll let you decide.

[Maulden7]

I'm sure you are correct. Bearing in mind that I was contacted by a chap whose first language is not English, there is probably a translation problem at the root of it all.

I was asked about firstly the actual / original gold colour, & secondly the "flake". So ...... being totally ignorant to start with, I did establish the actual colour / original colour by consulting two knowledgeable chaps here in the UK (who both gave me the same information) then found out about "flake" (but did tell the guy in Spain that I really had no idea about this aspect)

He did say that information about the "flake" was important!

The information about the Silver undercoat is also confirmed by "The Vintage Guitar Info Guy" on his extensive web site & one of the authors of the book ... Fender The Golden Age 1946-1970 ... & I have no reason to think that what I posted earlier is not correct.

[lamf37]

Crescent Bronze powders are, what I'm informed to be, the powdered metallic flakes(and flakes is used loosely here as this stuff is fine fine powder) that all the original Gibson Goldtops were painted with, same principal being spoken about above, the powder is mixed in with thinners to form a light paste then whatever lacquer ypu desire is added to it to a consistency thin enough to spray. I know Danocaster uses the same powders I spoke to him sporadically when I was first looking for certain colours. If you want an authentic metallic finish as far as I'm concerned it's the only stuff to use if you've got spraying equipment. Do a Google search especially linking it with fender or gibson and there's loads of online reading about the powders