Under the Hood of Pre-CBS Offsets... (Vintage Markings)

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
Post Reply
User avatar
fullerplast
Mods
Mods
Posts: 12710
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:53 am
Location: In My Room

Re: Under the Hood of Pre-CBS Offsets... (Vintage Markings)

Post by fullerplast » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:01 am

Why does that one say Kaiser?
I think that's the brand of the sheet aluminum.
Q. Are we not men?

User avatar
kosmonautmayhem
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5781
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:26 am
Location: Chicago

Re: Under the Hood of Pre-CBS Offsets... (Vintage Markings)

Post by kosmonautmayhem » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:46 am

It's a Kaiser Wilhem signature series! :w00t:

RARE!!!!!!!!!!! TONZ!!!!!!!!!!!! :? :? :? :? :?

User avatar
slirak
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:47 pm

Re: Under the Hood of Pre-CBS Offsets... (Vintage Markings)

Post by slirak » Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:56 am

What's cool with Bill Carson is that he was a fairly famous guitarist in the fifties, so you can find quite a bit of info about him. Here's a link to his obituary in Guitar World, there are some nice anecdotes and pics there.

Below is a pic of my 65 Mustang, with Bill's signature on one of the pickups and I guess he signed the guard too, though he left out the C there. But what do you think about the other pickup sig? Could be interpreted as a really sloppy AY, but it doesn't look like the Abigail Ybarra sigs I've found on the web, so I guess that's not it. Any ideas?

Image

User avatar
TheSurfer
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:45 pm

Re: Under the Hood of Pre-CBS Offsets... (Vintage Markings)

Post by TheSurfer » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:18 pm

Question: My '63 Jag has the 1DEC63B neck stamp, but the body is dated 11/63, and the pots are dated 6408, what year is the guitar actually considered?

User avatar
kosmonautmayhem
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5781
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:26 am
Location: Chicago

Re: Under the Hood of Pre-CBS Offsets... (Vintage Markings)

Post by kosmonautmayhem » Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:32 pm

TheSurfer wrote:Question: My '63 Jag has the 1DEC63B neck stamp, but the body is dated 11/63, and the pots are dated 6408, what year is the guitar actually considered?
It's always considered to be the year of the latest date code. (Given it's all original.)
What you have isn't that uncommon. The neck and body were made before the guitar was wired up and shipped out.
I have a '64 JM with early '64 pots and pickups, but the neck is DEC63. ;)

User avatar
TheSurfer
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:45 pm

Re: Under the Hood of Pre-CBS Offsets... (Vintage Markings)

Post by TheSurfer » Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:48 pm

kosmonautmayhem wrote:
TheSurfer wrote:Question: My '63 Jag has the 1DEC63B neck stamp, but the body is dated 11/63, and the pots are dated 6408, what year is the guitar actually considered?
It's always considered to be the year of the latest date code. (Given it's all original.)
What you have isn't that uncommon. The neck and body were made before the guitar was wired up and shipped out.
I have a '64 JM with early '64 pots and pickups, but the neck is DEC63.

Ah, gotcha. At least I know it isn't a Frankenstein. Since I'm also a surf guitarist, does the name Eddie Bertrand ring any bells? Up until Eddie passed away a couple years ago, he regularly played what he claimed was a late '64/early '65 Jaguar. Not sure what the pickups are dated, but the pots are dated 30-65, neck is stamped 1AUG65B, and the serial number is 650059 with an F logo neck plate. Another friend of mine has that guitar. Is it considered a Frankenstein, or is it a true '65 Jag?

User avatar
kosmonautmayhem
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5781
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:26 am
Location: Chicago

Re: Under the Hood of Pre-CBS Offsets... (Vintage Markings)

Post by kosmonautmayhem » Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:18 am

That's hard to say. It sounds like a mid 64 with an CBS era plate that is probably not original.
I say that because even early to mid '65s still have the L-series plate. But when it comes to Fender, nothing is impossible, especially during the transition years.

You should get pics and start a specific thread. Would love to see that Jag!

User avatar
supernerd
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:09 am
Location: oakland, ca
Contact:

Re: Under the Hood of Pre-CBS Offsets... (Vintage Markings)

Post by supernerd » Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:02 am

gawjuss!

User avatar
sounderstudios
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:35 am

Re: Under the Hood of Pre-CBS Offsets... (Vintage Markings)

Post by sounderstudios » Sun Feb 15, 2015 1:59 pm

I have a "B" on the shield plate of my JUN 64 Jazzmaster.

Image

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B87iqb ... sp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
ronsvintage
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 5:58 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Under the Hood of Pre-CBS Offsets... (Vintage Markings)

Post by ronsvintage » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:48 am

Fender 1961 Jazzmaster in Daphne Blue. Here’s the story. I acquired this guitar in its original state except the body had been badly refinished. I was delighted to find that the refin did not extend to the body cavity, and the letters “DAFF” were written in pencil in the space between the pickups. I also discovered that the words “Daphne Blue” were written on a piece of masking tape holding the pickup wires to the metal pickguard shield. I had the body refinished to match the original Daphne Blue paint in the body cavity, of course preserving the original paint where found. FYI the neck date is 11-60, pots dated to early 1961

Image

Image

User avatar
46346
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2576
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:39 am
Location: South Los
Contact:

Re: Under the Hood of Pre-CBS Offsets... (Vintage Markings)

Post by 46346 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 5:03 pm

^^^^ that's great. i love the pencil on masking tape notes. mine has a pretty fun one on the wiring tape - i gotta open 'er up again and take fotos and post here.

nice job on the restoration! do you think the headstock was originally matching? maybe i'm forgetting my time frame, but i'd expect it to be Daphne too.
Dream Apes, ACME, Malcolm Mooney, Cat Museum, Cooling Time

User avatar
kosmonautmayhem
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5781
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:26 am
Location: Chicago

Re: Under the Hood of Pre-CBS Offsets... (Vintage Markings)

Post by kosmonautmayhem » Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:15 pm

That's Daphne IS great! I think a NM headstock is totally right for '61.

User avatar
zhivago
Mods
Mods
Posts: 20535
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:18 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Under the Hood of Pre-CBS Offsets... (Vintage Markings)

Post by zhivago » Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:50 am

Daphne beauty...what a JM!!!!!! :-*
Resident Spartan.

User avatar
46346
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2576
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:39 am
Location: South Los
Contact:

Re: Under the Hood of Pre-CBS Offsets... (Vintage Markings)

Post by 46346 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:51 pm

kosmonautmayhem wrote:That's Daphne IS great! I think a NM headstock is totally right for '61.
you're so right! I got mixed up with the previous post being a '64.

of course 1962 was the dawn of the matching headstock. was it george fullerton's idea?

when I was young I didn't like it. now I find it fascinating.
Dream Apes, ACME, Malcolm Mooney, Cat Museum, Cooling Time

User avatar
Axolotl
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 997
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:06 am

Re: Under the Hood of Pre-CBS Offsets... (Vintage Markings)

Post by Axolotl » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:58 am

Here are the "Esper" markings on my 59 refin Jazzmaster

Image

Image


Image

Post Reply