Does anyone remember how hard it was to buy an offset before the 'offset boom'?

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
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Re: Does anyone remember how hard it was to buy an offset before the 'offset boom'?

Post by OSGTemp » Thu May 10, 2018 8:43 am

I don't think offsets were ever really cheap even in the 1980's. Maybe the ones that were stripped or had issues, even that Bass VI in Spinal Tap was a known entity.

Some of those prices at Jacksons are crazy when you think its 1993. Comparable to current prices.

There must have been a lot of nonsense and voodoo buyers would have had to put up with arrogant dealers back then. "rare" "hard to find etc" in modern times we now know fender made about 100,000 instruments per year in the 1960's and most of them survived. Even that Songbirds muesuem, you can see that whilst the emotional value of the instruments are high, they have been able to source just about everything in pristine condition. I'd never seen a real vintage Shell Pink fender, and now I've seen four just in the last 18 months.

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Re: Does anyone remember how hard it was to buy an offset before the 'offset boom'?

Post by daemon » Thu May 10, 2018 8:43 am

After seeing and reading about MBV/SY/etc using them, I decided the JM was for me. In the US (where I was, anyway) you didn't see many of them at all in the early 90s. The, around '94 I walk into my local shop and see one of these beauties on the wall:
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I think I paid $650 for it, which seemed like a crap ton at the time, but it was totally worth it.

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Re: Does anyone remember how hard it was to buy an offset before the 'offset boom'?

Post by mgeek » Thu May 10, 2018 1:11 pm

OSGTemp wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 8:43 am
Some of those prices at Jacksons are crazy when you think its 1993. Comparable to current prices.


Yeah I was thinking that...1500 for a '65 Mustang?! That's what it'd cost today. Is that place known for being expensive?

I stumbled across a guitar magazine with UK price listings in it from around the same time and things were a fraction of their modern day price, like, refin '64 strats for a couple of hundred quid more than a modern one, seventies Fenders for less than new ones etc.

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Re: Does anyone remember how hard it was to buy an offset before the 'offset boom'?

Post by debudavid » Thu May 10, 2018 3:39 pm

Australia was a captive audience for vintage stuff because it was so hard to source it from outside of the country before ebay came along.

Here's what happened to Jackson's. Selling guitars that weren't theirs to sell.

http://www.juliusmedia.com/jacksons-rar ... questions/

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Re: Does anyone remember how hard it was to buy an offset before the 'offset boom'?

Post by Jellyfishin'Musician » Fri May 11, 2018 1:39 pm

OSGTemp wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 8:43 am
I don't think offsets were ever really cheap even in the 1980's. Maybe the ones that were stripped or had issues, even that Bass VI in Spinal Tap was a known entity.
They certainly were cheap.
Dirt cheap!
And -of course- I never picked one up. I can vividly recall (like the recurring nightmare that it's become!) passing on either of two Pre-CBS Jazzmasters -one CAR, the other LPB (of course)- both in great shape, each was selling for $500. And this was at a guitar show in New York City. Elsewhere in the US, prices would've been even cheaper. This was in the late-eighties. Pre-grunge, virtually no one wanted them.

Prices for a select few vintage solidbodies (and semi-hollows, like dotneck 335s), such as Strats, Teles, Les Paul Standards & Customs, etc., were high, relative to brand new, high-end equivalents (only 'Bursts, korinas, & custom color Strats were going for way, way more than Gibson or Fender's comparable Custom Shop/limited, top-of-the-line models), but nothing like what they'd become. '50s Les Paul Juniors and Specials could still be had for reasonable prices, too.

That Bass VI (from Norm Harris's collection) was singled out, only because it was pristine and -especially- because it was Foam Green, exceedingly rare for that model.

If you ever happen upon copies of the old Guitar Trader newsletters, from the early-eighties, be prepared to weep -and those were retail prices! Guitars changed hands for significantly less, in private sales. Even adjusting for inflation, most of those vintage guitars were pretty attainable, before they became a commodity for baby-boomer speculators to buy up (or send to Japan, by the boatload).

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Re: Does anyone remember how hard it was to buy an offset before the 'offset boom'?

Post by OSGTemp » Fri May 11, 2018 9:35 pm

I seem to recall that $500 was still a lot of money in the late 1980's for anything, relative to today. there is generally more cash flying around in today's economy to do stupid things like pay 10k for a guitar.

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Re: Does anyone remember how hard it was to buy an offset before the 'offset boom'?

Post by Jellyfishin'Musician » Fri May 11, 2018 10:25 pm

I worked in a Sam Ash music store, at that time - then, a chain of eight stores, with pretty deep discounts.
The very-competitively-priced American Standard Strats were just under $500 (as Fender had just resumed US-production, and needed to reestablish itself, while doing damage control to the hit its reputation took, during the CBS era). Les Paul Standards were around $850... actually, that may have been the Customs! Following Gibson's 1985 revitalization, their prices were quite reasonable, but -within a few short years- some of the models almost doubled in price!
Paul Reed Smith Customs were probably pushing $1,500, for those with a "10 top," US-made Jackson guitars ranged from $1,000-$1.500, and the then-new Tom Anderson guitars were in that same range.

But that $500 Jazzmaster price was for really clean examples in custom colors. Sunbursts must've been going for far less, and "player-grade" ones, even cheaper. In my four years at the shop, though, not a single used offset passed through our extremely busy store, and -not once- did anyone ever ask about one. One really young guy did bring in the Competition Mustang that he'd sought out, via a private sale, after he'd spent quite a while auditioning other, more contemporary options with me. I have to admit that, during that era, his choice was a bit of a head-scratcher to all of the staff, but there was no denying how cool it looked, just the same!

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Re: Does anyone remember how hard it was to buy an offset before the 'offset boom'?

Post by mgeek » Sat May 12, 2018 12:57 am

debudavid wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 3:39 pm
Australia was a captive audience for vintage stuff because it was so hard to source it from outside of the country before ebay came along.

Here's what happened to Jackson's. Selling guitars that weren't theirs to sell.

http://www.juliusmedia.com/jacksons-rar ... questions/
aha that makes much more sense- thought Jacksons was in America! haha ;D

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Re: Does anyone remember how hard it was to buy an offset before the 'offset boom'?

Post by eggwheat » Sat May 12, 2018 3:48 am

Offsets were cheap for sure relative to other models. Guitars were more expensive then as a whole..even the budget guitars.

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Re: Does anyone remember how hard it was to buy an offset before the 'offset boom'?

Post by Mechanical Birds » Sat May 12, 2018 12:25 pm

This is something I talk about all the time - even though I have zero memory ever seeing any in the Wild. That’s the thing - you could buy them, allegedly, for really reasonable prices. Finding them, though, seems to have been the tough part.

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Re: Does anyone remember how hard it was to buy an offset before the 'offset boom'?

Post by andy_tchp » Sat May 12, 2018 4:28 pm

OSGTemp wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 9:35 pm
I seem to recall that $500 was still a lot of money in the late 1980's for anything, relative to today. there is generally more cash flying around in today's economy to do stupid things like pay 10k for a guitar.
Yes, in Australia in the late 1980s it'd be about a full week's average pay, whereas it's now closer to $1500 (though I'd be happy to pay that for a vintage Fender!)
mgeek wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 1:11 pm
Yeah I was thinking that...1500 for a '65 Mustang?! That's what it'd cost today. Is that place known for being expensive?
Yes. They were always absolute rip off merchants - even for run of the mill 'modern' stuff like '62 Telecaster Reissues they'd be asking a good $1000AUD more than the good gear shops around Sydney like Guitar Crazy, Pete's (and the other great shops on King St Newtown who's name I can't remember because they've closed down...)
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Re: Does anyone remember how hard it was to buy an offset before the 'offset boom'?

Post by spacecadet » Sat May 12, 2018 5:56 pm

Offsets were definitely pretty cheap up through the early 90's. I've told the story here before of how a music store across the street from my future roommate's apartment in New York City had one in the window for $500, but I was a poor college student so I couldn't afford it. But I can definitely vouch for that being a pretty normal price for them. But that was in NYC; they'd probably go for even less elsewhere.

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Re: Does anyone remember how hard it was to buy an offset before the 'offset boom'?

Post by timtam » Sat May 12, 2018 5:58 pm

As I mentioned earlier, I can't recall just how hard they were to find around here circa 1980. My best friend was pretty happy to get his used red L-series 60's Jag for $300.

With Fender ceasing jag production in 1975 and jazzmaster in 1980, the local big box stores would have been low on stock circa 1980, if they had any. Outside the local post punk scene - which was an intense but in reality a pretty small scene here - I can't imagine why anyone else would have bought one, assuming they cost about the same new as strats and teles and LPs. Almost all the other kids I knew outside the post-punk scene who played had copies of strats or LPs, even though lots of them had rich parents. As others have mentioned, guitars were a greater proportion of the average wage then than now. It was mostly just pro players who had real Fenders and Gibsons.

The attraction of jags and jazzmasters to us was the influential players who would have bought those guitars in the mid 1970's when apparently they really were dirt cheap, and were bought mainly because that was all they could afford ... Tom Verlaine, Robert Smith, Rowland Howard (the 'S' came much later IIRC), Elvis Costello. No one I knew outside of the post-punk scene would have ever heard of those guys then, except maybe Costello.

My friend actually played synth in the support band for the Cure in 1980 on their (first?) tour downunder, where he talked guitars with Robert Smith in the green room. My memory is that was where we first got the explanation for the weird cheap pickup Smith had in the middle position on his Jazzmaster. The Cure's first two albums remain amongst my favourites (they went in very different and less interesting directions after that - firstly the Pornography era, and then the poppy one that most people know them for).
https://www.guitarplayer.com/players/-t ... lks-guitar
http://guitarz.blogspot.com.au/2010/09/ ... aster.html
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/vie ... hp?t=55178

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Last edited by timtam on Fri May 18, 2018 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Does anyone remember how hard it was to buy an offset before the 'offset boom'?

Post by fuzzjunkie » Mon May 14, 2018 5:51 pm

I bought a Jazzmaster as my first electric guitar at a pawnshop mid-80s. It was a sunburst and cost $300. They also had a yellow-white one and a red one. I liked the red best, but couldn't afford it. I don't know what year any of them were. No one really cared unless it was a Strat or Les Paul.

I traded it for an amp after I found a Telecaster to replace it. Finally a "Real" guitar my friends wouldn't laugh at! Most of my favorite players played Telecasters or Rickenbackers, but eventually I missed the JM after discovering Sonic Youth. Suddenly they were no where to be found!

Occasionally I would come across one, 1990-93, but they were all custom colors and priced higher than I wanted to pay. I finally sprung for a dot and binding in LPB that was player grade. I never bonded with it and traded it for a Sea Foam Jaguar. 1963. Now people cared about the vintage. In 1994 You could still find a beater Jag for under $1000, but rarely a JM. Someone offered me a 1954 gold top with P-90s right after I got that Jag. I kept the Jag and eventually got another and finally a keeper JM, but I could have flipped that gold top for what I paid for all 3.

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Re: Does anyone remember how hard it was to buy an offset before the 'offset boom'?

Post by Mad-Mike » Tue May 15, 2018 10:03 am

Holy cow do I remember.

My budding guitar playing years were in the early-mid 1990's, after Grunge got big. I lived in East Alabama and visited Florida occasionally, so all I ever saw was the popular southern Blues, rock, and country staples all the time - Tele's, G&L ASATs, Stratocasters, Les Pauls, maybe the occasional Firebird or Explorer, or the first guitars from Mr. Orr's guitar class students from the 80's if I'm lucky to see anything out of the norm. Offsets just never showed up much - maybe we'd get one a year at most, but it was not unusual between the Auburn Guitar Shoppe and Crossroads Music to not see ANY offsets for an entire year, and then maybe one or two at most any given isolated year (usually Jazzmasters or the occasional *Stang).

When they did come in, they were not cheap, but not too expensive either. A Japanese Fender offset of any kind, or vintage Fender Mustang/Music Master/Duo-Sonic ran between $350-500 depending on age, condition, and what exact model it was. Vintage offsets went from player grade partscasters for around $600-700 to dead mint vintage-pieces for around $1000-2000 on the rare occasion (and by mint I mean mint).

Here was the trending - it seems like a lot passed through but I remember it feeling like for-freakin-ever before I could find or get to play any specific model...

July 1995 - Auburn Guitar Shoppe - 1960 Fender Jazzmaster Foam Green w/OHSC - $1500 *asked to play, was not let
Aug 1995 - Crossroads Music - 1975 Memphis Mustang Copy - $350.00 *played, loved it, could not afford it at the time
Oct 1995 - Crossroads Music - 1963 Fender Jaguar Body & Neck - $350, was later rebuilt and sold for around $750 in 1997 after being in back
July 1996 - Auburn Guitar Shoppe - 1994 Fender Jazzmaster MIJ Foto Flame w/ Duncans and OHSC - $499.00 *almost became my first guitar
Aug 1996 - Crossroads Music - 1995 Fender Jazzmaster MIJ CAR w/ Matching Headstock - $599.99 *put on hold, mom interfered
Dec 1996 - Auburn Guitar Shoppe - 1978 Fender Music Master with 2nd PIckup - $350.00 *I wanted this one but wanted it modded w/ a switch
Aug 1997 - Crossroads Music - 1964 Fender Mustang Daphne Blue - $450 *I loved this one but had a bit of a vendetta with Crossroads at this point
Mar 1999 - Auburn Guitar Shoppe - 1995 Fender Jag-Stang w/EMG Pickups - $450.00* Became my first offset in Feb 2000, still have it, still my #1
Sept 1999 - Auburn Guitar Shoppe - 1997 Fender Jag-Stang - $599.99* Tried it out, did not impress me, I liked the EMG'd guitar better :)
June 2000 - Crossroads Music - 1997 Fender Jaguar CIJ - $Not For Sale - Someone brought one in for repairs, I so wanted to try it out
Sept 2003 - Auburn Guitar Shoppe - 1964 Fender Jaguar - $1500* This Jaguar set the benchmark for all Jaguars that came after it

After moving to Washington in 2005 - I started finding offsets and such a lot more. I think Offset availability was also location just in the first several months, but took a nationwide whole after Indie/Hipster cred + guys like me and many on this forum and others started posting a lot of videos on the then new non-google (at the time) YouTube with Offset guitars. You had me and the whole "offset shredder" thing, NOMAKills taking it to the next level, Fran and his custom builds, some guy from here was doing a lot of kickass pickup demos - and it just seems from there, the whole "Offset" guitar thing became a thing. It's crazy to look back and see how far this style of guitar has come in just 10-12 years.

I think the real peak for the scarcity thing was 2008-2010 though - as that's around the time I Built my own Jazzmaster because the prices were bloody ridiculous and I did not like the specs on the CP for my choice of music as I wanted a more traditional Jazzmaster at the time. The VM Series was not out yet (either version), and the J.Mascius was a $600 Japanese model. I also owned my first vintage Fender (1966 Fender Mustang) and pretty much from that point on if I wanted "more" of anything I'd just trace the guitars I had and build it myself.

I remember going to music stores hoping there's a Jaguar there, now almost every guitar shop I go to has at least one or two Jaguars in stock and I can just grab one and plug it in and test out some piece of gear without hauling one of my own guitars in and get an accurate representation. If not a JAg, there's a Jazzmaster, or a Mustang of some kind around.

And it's an odd phenomenon that I've found with most of the oddball guitars I'm interested in that as soon as I get one of my own and find some way to post it somewhere with a quality post, somehow it seems all of the cool guitars come out of the woodwork. The Hondo Paul Dean II used to be made out of unobtainium a few years ago, never saw one in person, could never find one more often than once every five years making them harder to get than the Offsets - only to now in 2018 be running a Facebook page and website aobut them myself, and now they come out of the woodwork everywhere - and not just the Hondos which there were maybe 1000 made - but the Odyssey guitars there were only 50 made, and most recently one of the guitars PAUL DEAN himself built came out of the woodwork, apparently one of the original home-built prototypes he built from scratch made it's way into a Loverboy Fan's guitar collection in the early 80's and he still has it. The internet is a facinating thing for scarcity, that much is true.

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