Comparing Vintage Jazzmasters: '58/59 to '65

[sab2208]

I currently have a '65 Jazzmaster with dots and binding. I'm looking into getting a '58 or early '59 with gold guard. I just read a thread that says the '58/59 may have darker sounding pickups, but I've never compared enough examples of each side by side to come to that conclusion myself. I'm already aware of the inlay and slab/veneer differences. Can anyone compare the two (sound, weight, body, neck, etc)? Thanks!

[bencrit]

Well, I would say in general that the earlier guitars have a darker sound to them. Much of that probably comes from the slab board for board. It’s thicker, and Rosewood does “mellow“ the tone. With the veneer boards, you’re getting closer to the Maple which is naturally more great.

The different pick guards on 58-early 59 models also affect the sound. Again, I remember those sounded more mellow.

So I don’t know if it’s really the “pick ups“ that are darker. That may vary from guitar to guitar regardless of the year. There’s also a lot of other factors such as the Values of the pots and capacitor if they have drifted at all. Your amp also makes a big difference, as will the set up, especially if the bridge is too low and the break angle is not proper. When that angle is not correct, you can really make the strings sound “dead” to me.

But, in general, I would say that the earlier Jazzmasters do sound a bit “mellower” to my ear. I own about seven of them right now ranging from 59-late 64. But they all still sound like “Jazzmasters” . The differences are fairly subtle.

Hope my ramblings give you a sense of what you’re looking for.

[Musjagjazz]

Early Models used FormVar wire whereas CBS models used Plain Enamel wire on the pickups.

From the Pickup Wizard's website:
The thicker insulation on the FormVar wire makes a fatter coil which tends to provide a slightly warmer tone with more complex harmonics verses the more commonly used dark purple/red Single Plain Enamel magnet wire.
The Plain Enamel magnet wire versions tend to have better high end performance with a crisper tone than the FormVar versions which tends to be a little warmer in tone with more complex harmonics.

[Axolotl]

I have and love both a D&B 65 and a tort guard 59 -both refins. Yes, the 59 sounds considerably darker because of the formvar pickups. Both retain the jazzmaster piano-like sound though, just with a slightly -yet noticeable- change in timbre.

Other big changes are to be found in the neck: My 65 got a wide nut width a 42.5mm, the neck is quite chunky and has no taper whatsoever. The 59 on the other hand has a narrower nut width (a bit over 41mm) and the taper is very noticeable: The neck is very slim at the first frets and gets massively thick at the 12th fret. I'd think they started to make non-tapered necks from 65 onwards to save time? Both profiles feel awesome to me, although I personally prefer non-tapered necks.

Another different feature would be the tremolo. I found the pat. pending tremolo to be somewhat stiffer than the 65 that works wonderfully. AFAIK the early trems came with a larger spring, so I bought a new spring with one less round and now works much better.

The body of the 59 feels slightly thicker and the guitar is overall a bit heavier than the 65. Here's a pic of both guitars because bragging.

[ultraboreal]

I had a GG 59 and a 62 at the same time (unfortunately needed money and sold both... would love to get back a 59)
Would agree with all that is said, my 62 was really great and fantastic, more aggressive tone (bright but not harsh with a lot of harmonics). In comparaison, sound of my 59 was mellower and darker, really soft and great. That comparison was made with the same amp which is a bit on the bright side, depends of the amp but the 59 is darker and the 62 was really a rock n roll or indie beast!
Also agree with the thin neck on the 59... the best neck I’ve ever had on a guitar! My 62 was all original beaten JM and was the best looking JM I’ve ever see... sold it here!

[sab2208]

I had a GG 59 and a 62 at the same time (unfortunately needed money and sold both... would love to get back a 59)
Would agree with all that is said, my 62 was really great and fantastic, more aggressive tone (bright but not harsh with a lot of harmonics). In comparaison, sound of my 59 was mellower and darker, really soft and great. That comparison was made with the same amp which is a bit on the bright side, depends of the amp but the 59 is darker and the 62 was really a rock n roll or indie beast!
Also agree with the thin neck on the 59... the best neck I’ve ever had on a guitar! My 62 was all original beaten JM and was the best looking JM I’ve ever see... sold it here!

Thanks for the info. How did their weight compare?

[ultraboreal]

59 was lighter but not a huge difference. For me the 59 has the perfect neck, perfect weight!

[Ursa Minor]

I went from a D+B early 66 JM to a late '63 / early '64 JM. Lots of differences imo. I've played earlier ones from '59 on up but not as extensively as 64-66.

Neck wise, my 66 was really comfy but not as big as the 64 neck. 66 had more of a D shape that was about the same thickness all the way up the neck. The 64 is typical of big C shape Fender necks from the era. Big taper and a nice round full shape to the neck. Very comfortable to play. It's not a baseball bat but it is substantial.

irrc, 66 neck depth was .82 / .92" (1st / 12th fret measurements)
The 64 is .83 / .99".

Pickups should be the same on paper but my 66 had weak pickups and sounded thin and trebly. The '64's grey bobbins are perfect examples. They're full sounding with an extra high-end that is nice to have. I tend to roll off a little volume and/or tone depending - not because I have to but because its nice to be able to dial in that last little bit of treble and volume when the need arises.

Ands yes, the older one have darker pickups but again its subtle.

[Despot]

I had a GG 59 and a 62 at the same time (unfortunately needed money and sold both... would love to get back a 59)
Would agree with all that is said, my 62 was really great and fantastic, more aggressive tone (bright but not harsh with a lot of harmonics). In comparaison, sound of my 59 was mellower and darker, really soft and great. That comparison was made with the same amp which is a bit on the bright side, depends of the amp but the 59 is darker and the 62 was really a rock n roll or indie beast!
Also agree with the thin neck on the 59... the best neck I’ve ever had on a guitar! My 62 was all original beaten JM and was the best looking JM I’ve ever see... sold it here!

I agree with all that has been said about ultraboreal's '62 ... as this is now my main guitar!!

An interesting thing to consider with Jazzmasters is pickup height - I swapped out the bridge on the '62 when I got it for a Mastery (just personal preference - it was stable as it was). When doing this I noticed that the pickguard had shrunk to where it was putting pressure on the pickup covers. Being OCD I decided that this should be something that I sort out, so I very carefully sanded the corners of the pickup cut-outs and put it all back together. In the process I initially forgot that I also needed to sand around the height adjustment 'bumps' so when it was all back together the pickup height for the bridge was lower than it used to be - but only by a very small amount. However the difference in tone was stark - that aggressive sound that ultraboreal notes was gone in the bridge - it became quite mellow and muted. Not a bad sound ... but not what it had been.

I realised what had happened and corrected it - gently widening the height adjustment bumps as well so that the pickups could be raised/lowered (just about). It took me a while to dial the height back in ... and the difference between 'perfect' and 'still not there' was tiny - the actual ideal height was such a narrow band on the overall height scale if you will. Maybe I was just being hyper sensitive to the sound I could remember in my head ... but it did take a while to dial it back in.

I guess what I'm saying is that single coils are more sensitive to adjustment of height than humbuckers ... and folk probably rarely factor varying height in when thinking why guitar A sounds different than guitar B. However - in the case of ultraboreal's two ... I think the gold guard and earlier pickups had more to do with it than height ... I'm just talking in generalities.

[Ursa Minor]

Good point Kev!

Pickup height matters a lot in any single coil guitar. Jazzmasters are no exception to that rule. I've also spent a great deal of time dialing them in but had to perform a similar job carefully sanding the pickguard to unfreeze the pickup covers.