Assistance evaluating a 1962 JM I just found

[infiniteposse]

Hi all-

I just randomly decided to hit a few of my regular pawn shops that I haven't been to in a while and, low and behold, they had a 1962 Jazzmaster hanging behind the counter. I played it cool and looked at some other bits and then asked if I could check it out. Inexplicably it'd be in the shop for 5 months with no movement and they were very ready to make a deal, so I got it at a very reasonable price if it's all here. It was clearly a refin of questionable quality and there are some other issues as well, but my primary concern right now is just making sure the basics are all here. I've got 24-hours for a return if needed, so I'm just trying to hustle and make sure all is well. Please forgive the pricetag still being on the back of the body. You've got to love shops sticking tags right onto the finish...

The Good:
- Neck date is there! 4 July 62
- Great neck profile. I used to have a 1965 L-series JM that was a great guitar, but the neck profile was just lacked depth, so it felt tiny to me. This one has some girth to it.
- Light weight
- Sounds good, even with electronics needing to be sprayed out.
- Refin color - It looks to be in the Fiesta red ballpark, which is what I'd likely refin it as anyway, so no love lost there.
- Original case was included, but is in failing health. Who cares.
- Body has tall bridge thimbles, making it legit 1962, correct?

The Bad/Uncertain:
- Refin was done by who knows who... Not sure it's nitro. Not sure of anything. Not the worst refin I've ever seen, but...
- Neck got oversprayed or refinned. I can't tell which. Not sure of the originality of the decal.
- On the arm contour towards the back of the top it looks like there was a series of holes, perhaps for an arm pad or something, installed at some point. Whoever did the refin didn't bother to fill and sand them very well, so there's very slight puckering undering the refin that sometimes catch the light. Not a huge deal as I'm a player, but still, could have been done better.
- Gap at the far end of the tort guard on the bass side. I was afraid someone might have carved out under the guard, but the peep I've managed to get so far doesn't seem to suggest a massacre.
- Space on both sides of the neck pocket, but seems to be quite resonant when I played it. May not be a biggie.
- Bridge looks a little too clean. Is it original?
- Crack at the edge of the pickguard above the treble pickup and maybe another on the interior of the guard. Can you safely glue cracks with this material?
- Maybe bad/maybe nothing - The truss rod extends out of the bottom of the neck, which is something I've not seen before. I'm admittedly not an expert on this era of Fender though, so maybe it's completely normal. I've yet to test the trussrod. I just wanted to get it apart within my 24-hour return window.

Where I need help:
- I want to get the guard off to better evaluate electronics and the like, but something's preventing the lifting of the guard. It seems to be circular bits that the bridge sockets into that is preventing movement (tall bridge thimbles). The round metal part (tall bridge thimbles) is above the guard and seems to be set in the body, so I can't get beyond that. Am I missing something? Is the guard supposed to be above this? I'd guess this is why the guard is cracked above the treble pickup. It seems to flex there when you try to life the guard.

Edited to add:
- I just did some reading up on 1962 and I'm guessing what's happening with the guard not lifting up is it's shrunk up around the bass-side's tall bridge thimble. I'm not sure how to work around this without potentially damaging the guard more.

Here's a ton of pics. I'd appreciate any feedback anyone can offer.

[FrankRay]

Tuners neck pick guard all good; my concern would be the truss rod is so far out that it no longer works and that the neck is badly warped. How's it look?

[infiniteposse]

Tuners neck pick guard all good; my concern would be the truss rod is so far out that it no longer works and that the neck is badly warped. How's it look?

Doesn't looked warped but also doesn't look quite right. On the bass side it looks like it might have some backbow. Treble side looks a little more straight, but not quite perfect. I don't mind a refret and a level if needed.

Thanks for the suggestions. I put in a call to my local luthier to see if he can eyeball it for me really quickly. I don't mind spending some money to get it tiptop.

Anything else I could do to check it out while I wait to hear back from him? I'm always weary of futzing with truss-rods since I don't know what I'm doing.

[Ursa Minor]

Cool guitar but that truss rod is a BIG problem. Definitely has something going on. Any pics under the guard. Pickups look right and I think I see black bobbins under there.

Other things i see:
The decal is bogus. Neck pocket has some big gaps on both sides. Something I wouldn't expect from a Fender in 1962.
Weird to see tall thimbles in the body but it's one of the last slab boards so probably not out of the realm of possibility. Everything else looks right to me but I'd be very cautious of the neck. I'd want an experienced 3rd party luthier (not associated with the shop that's selling it) to give me a 2nd opinion. Unless of course it just plays wacky, then it's a dead giveaway the trussrod is busted or the neck wood is bowed or twisted.

Case is correct for the era too.

Proceed with caution.

[Danley]

Bridge looks right. Washers on the truss rod to facilitate more adjustment? Try removing the adjusting nut? Or leave it alone if relief is fine, live with it if you can.

[infiniteposse]

Thank you for all the feedback. I just left my luthiers place and unfortunately it appears that the guitar has tons of black bow with the truss rod all the way out and there's no more room left for to come back any further. When he tightens it up nothing is really happening either. Long story short, I'm going to have to take it back to the shop for either a refund or a very very very Significant discount.

We'll see what happens

[Crshngdstryr]

Bummer. At least now you know! If I were you, I wouldn't settle for a discount. The neck may only get worse as time goes on, so if it's possible, get your money back and put it towards something else. Good luck!

[Danley]

A luthier may be able to heat it straight. Not too expensive if you know where to go.

No wonder it's messed up, it could be that if washers are present under the rod to decrease relief it "over-corrected." You have a lot of good parts there still.

[infiniteposse]

I got back to the shop and negotiated on the price. I ended up paying $1200 for it, which I feel ok about. The neck may be corrected with a planing and refret, so I'll investigate that after I get back in town next week. The pickups really sounded awesome, so I think it's worth a small gamble to see how it can do.

You guys think it's ok for the price? It seems like from a parts perspective that price isn't bad at all, yes? I can't return it, so I hope so:)

Thanks for all the help!

[surfin_bird]

For europe that sounds like a really good price. Even if you end up putting a replacement neck on it, it would be a nice deal.

I got back to the shop and negotiated on the price. I ended up paying $1200 for it, which I feel ok about. The neck may be corrected with a planing and refret, so I'll investigate that after I get back in town next week. The pickups really sounded awesome, so I think it's worth a small gamble to see how it can do.

You guys think it's ok for the price? It seems like from a parts perspective that price isn't bad at all, yes? I can't return it, so I hope so:)

Thanks for all the help!

[infiniteposse]

Thanks for all of the constructive replies today. They really helped in a very tight time crunch.

Just to clarify, my goal is not to part this out. My earlier comment was more of how I do the math of what makes a guitar purchase "safe" and worthwhile or not. I like to at least break even on things and as long as I can, I like to then dive into projects and try and make them whole again.

My goal here is to try and resurrect the neck if at all possible and then, after that, decide what to do about the cosmetics of the guitar, if anything.

I got 100% clear about what my tech saw when he evaluated the guitar and I did a ton of reading about this kind of issue. When I brought the neck in to him the neck didn't have enough relief and was back bent, even while fully loosened up. As you can see in the earlier picture the truss rod was loosened up so far it protruded from the neck. He tightened the truss rod up so that it's no longer coming out of the end of the neck and it was still fully loosened.

From what I've been able to read this is a less common, but happens. There's a few approaches that I'm reading some folks take with these. I'm curious if anyone here has had luck with either...

1) The Dan Earlwine method - Loosen the trussrod completely, clamp into the position you want the neck in and then tighten the truss-rod to retain the position. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtKzL3n0fgc
2) Heatpressing the neck while it's clamped to restore the wood to a better shape
3) Refret with planing of the fretboard

If it wasn't a vintage neck with a profile I love I wouldn't bother, but I've never found a JM with this shape before and I really like it. The refret and neck plane will cost around $375 and I'd have a local shop do the work. I spoke to the tech there and he said he's quite certain it would fix the issue. I'd love any other thoughts anyone might have on the subject.

I'm also still very interested in any creative ideas about how to get the slightly shrunken pick-guard over the tall bridge thimbles to get it off the guitar and also curious if anyone has any more ideas about the gap between the guard and the body here:



Lastly, does this look like an actual Fender finish? I can't quite tell if it's Dakota red or a non-faded fiesta red. Now that I've sat with the finish a little more, it doesn't really bother me.

Thanks!

[gusgorman]

Nice find.. I'm sure you'll end up with something great in the end, and the effort will be worth it because you'll have saved a classic guitar from the grave. Good luck!

[fraser]

I've had lots of success with something like the erlewine method.
I used humidity, sometimes a little heat,
And creative clamping.
It's just wood and aging glue that's bieng pushed into position.

I'm not a luthier or anything, but I've used this method, or a variation of it on a dozen or so necks without a failure or disaster.

I do however take a lot of time with it.
I once spent something like 6 years getting a mess of a supro neck to co operate.

Yours looks like a far easier project.

I'd go that way before planing and fretting.

[RIORIO]

Damn I need to hit some of the Portland pawn shops!!!

[zhivago]

also curious if anyone has any more ideas about the gap between the guard and the body here:

!

That happens sometimes when the guard shrinks, not much you can do aside from putting a different guard on.