Why are vintage Jazzmaster prices through the roof?

[MechaBulletBill]

When even Mumford is looking uncomfortable strumming folky chords on the vintage JM someone put in his hands for an appearance on some talk show, you know that offsets are mainstream like strats/teles/LPs.

[zhivago]

When even Mumford is looking uncomfortable strumming folky chords on the vintage JM someone put in his hands for an appearance on some talk show, you know that offsets are mainstream like strats/teles/LPs.

Oh dear...I am glad I missed that!!

[thedude99]

I think there is more to it than kids of the 90's growing up and being able to afford them.

* There was also a big boom in offset usage in indie and mainstream music in the 2000's. Nels Cline probably plays as big a role as Sonic Youth. Dinosaur Jr have had a major resurgence - I hear about them more now than I did in the 90's

* Fender/Squire made them accessible releasing them at every price point. That is bound to have an effect on getting new players hooked.

*I've seen a big shift in attitude from people regarding Jazzmaster's. People used to consider them unplayable junk. They now they view them as a bridge swap away from being a great guitar.

* related to the point above - way more information about how to set an offset up and people that actually know how to do it for you. I don't think mine was done right for the first decade I had it.

* There is a largish pool of offset lovers on social media with fairly large followings. That's a major influencer these days. And places like CME/Reverb are pushing them hard as well

To be honest - if the 90's were the biggest driver, I'd expect Jags to be more popular/expensive than Jazzmaster's now due to Cobain playing one.

[zhivago]

Some good points,

I think in some ways OSG has made a small difference (the world is a pretty big place!).

The "one bridge change away" thing you mentioned resonates very, very true.

When I was in my late teens, aside from the fact that we really didn't have the internet, I had no idea what the guitars in these 90s videos where.

Jags and Jazzmasters looked VERY similar, so I actually would think it was one guitar "style" but with changed pickups/(chrome) parts.

As I progressed through life (i.e. aged), and the internet appeared, there was a tad more info on these mysterious guitars. But still very little.

To put it in perspective. My first internet search was in university in 1997, and my first brush with Fender Discussion Page's "Area 51", which was the offset section (where almost everybody seemed to play surf - one of my favourite styles EVER!), was probably 6 years later...maybe more...this is what? 2003? 2004?

I will now take off my OSG mod/founding member hat off and just say that when OSG came together it was a concentrated effort from people (founders AND members) to show these great guitars for what they were/are. Content was, and is, still king.

Then a perfect storm of people creating parts ((Novak (before anyone else really), Mastery, Staytrem etc) occurred...and all the US reissues.

Until the early 2000s when AVRIs came out you only had two choices. Vintage or Japanese...and the Japanese guitars required many upgrades, as to begin with, the pickups were wrong (JMs). No-one really knew what these guitar designs really sounded like.

In my view, as a player, and I bought my first offset at 17 and I am now 39, there is nothing finer than being vindicated after all these years and the general public seeing the value of these excellent instruments.

Yes, it makes sense that the prices have gone up. But is there nothing more special than gathering your pennies and buying an instrument you love and bond with?



Please excuse my long-winded post. I have a day off today

[NickD]

I don't really know where mine would sit pricewise TBH.

I paid £2,500 for my refinished '64 Jazzmaster back in 2012. It is white with a white (well, off white tbh) guard and a natural headstock. No idea what colour it was originally. It was original bar the refin and bridge saddles (it now wears a Mastery).

I don't know if I overpaid when I bought it - probably a little as I bought from a dealer, but it is an amazing guitar. And what would that buy new? An AVRI? Just about. Not quite enough to get a Custom Shop. It is enough to get a US Les Paul, but again, not enough for a Custom Shop. Unless the value of my JM has gone up massively (and please tell me if it has, I'll need to change the insurance value!) then I don't see vintage JMs and Jags as terrible VFM, at least refin/not quite perfect ones.

[Despot]

I bought a CIJ Jaguar when I was ... I don't know .. 19 or so. I was chuffed to bits. It was OTM with matching headstock and it was the best looking guitar I'd ever seen.

Unfortunately, compared to my telecaster, it was 'unplayable' and 'fidgety'. Or at least that was what I thought at the time, when I didn't have a clue how to set them up (and the resources were lacking to be able to teach yourself).

I'll out myself as a fully paid up member of the bridge-swap tribe - either Staytrem or Mastery. I like how offsets sound with both, but if pushed I'd go Mastery.

OSG thought me about offsets, and how to set them up. I set up my own guitars by and large - more often than not. Give me twenty minutes with a Jaguar or Jazzmaster and I'll have it singing unless it needs fret work. That's OSG - all OSG.

So being able to set these guitars up, being able to find the resource to teach me how to do it such that they're viable options is probably the main reason why I play offsets.

[MechaBulletBill]

* There is a largish pool of offset lovers on social media with fairly large followings. That's a major influencer these days. And places like CME/Reverb are pushing them hard as well

Like Ryan Adams, the indie Joe Bonamassa

[Despot]

I don't see vintage JMs and Jags as terrible VFM, at least refin/not quite perfect ones.

That's where the value is, you're right Nick.

I bought the silverbust '66 Jazzmaster I had from a guy on the Irish version of craigslist - I paid 1800 or 1900 euro for it (I forget ... but it was under 2k, but not much). That was, at the time, less than the price of the recently released (at that time) AV65 Jazzmaster. And it was a glorious guitar - I still miss it, even though it got sold to fund my main Jazzmaster.

All original Jazzmasters have certainly gone up in price - but refins or 'player grade' can still provide some value. And what's the difference between my all original '62 and that refin '66 in terms of quality? Nothing. Not a thing - they're both excellent guitars. The voicing is different (different pickups) and the neck shapes are different ... but otherwise they're on par. Except one cost half the price of the other. And that sort of matters.

[shadowplay]

You could argue that they are no longer comparatively underpriced and undervalued. Some of this is undoubtedly due to the reasons Yannis mentions but there's another aspect that I see mirrored in old car buying, is when people are pushed out of one thing by price they tend to move into the next best thing or the thing that is currently misunderstood and I think this is the road that leads from Stratocaster town to Jazzmaster town for many who fancy an old guitar. In cars, pre-FIAT Ferrari's are all over £200 grand (most severla times that) even for the ones that I remember costing £20 grand like the 2+2's, therefore folk move into old Maseratis and when priced out (also towed up by the ridiculous Aston DB market) go to Lancia's or Alfa Romeo's, which then get towed up and so on...

When I was a teen in the 80's, even in the UK you could buy a Jaguar and Jazzmaster for well under a grand for the pair and a similarly aged Stratocaster was several times that and these days this hasn't really changed, though the wider appreciation has, much like more folk appreciate an old Maserati as being the equal of a Ferrari many ways, even if it costs way, way less.

I also think that another thing driving the pricing is more people having bigger collections, perhaps the internet has scewed my perception but there's a lot of home players with big collections of old guitars (and new too) and I'm not sure if that was always the case. I also see this in cars where I used to think that having five old cars was hoarding but now I know folk with 50 cars and I cling on to this crumb of my own relative sanity.

D

[Despot]

The collecting thing is a fair point. I probably fall into that category, though I consider myself a player who hordes rather than a collector really. But right now I've ten guitars sitting in cases at home - that's a drop in the ocean compared to some on here, but is it tenable in real terms for someone who isn't a real musician? Probably not...

A friend of mine always jokes when I point out deals I've found online to him - he's got a love of ES guitars too - but he'll always respond with "that would be a deal if I was a professional/semi-professional musician rather than an amateur and had a need of it".

On the other hand I think differently - to me buying/trading guitars is a way to try lots of different things to learn about them, to get used to them ... it's sort of a library. Things that stick do so because they pass some critical test of 'usefulness' to me.

If I was forced at gun point to sell off most of my guitars I would probably be able to cut it down to two or three (but it would kill me to have to do so). Right now circumstances haven't forced that upon me ... and long may it continue.

But I agree with Shadowplay's point about people being priced out of the Strat/Tele market looking at other viable alternatives. The best value right now is still in Jaguars ... if you want a good pre-CBS Fender for relatively small money. A refin pre-CBS Jaguar? 1800 euro (what I paid for a refin L series from a dealer 2 years ago). That's AVRI/AV65 money.

[shadowplay]

edited; that might have looked a bit snobbish.

D

[NickD]

If I was forced at gun point to sell off most of my guitars I would probably be able to cut it down to two or three (but it would kill me to have to do so). Right now circumstances haven't forced that upon me ... and long may it continue.

Not at gunpoint, obviously, but I did it. I went from 30 at one point to:

64 Jazzmaster
67 Coronado
13 Gibson LP R9
Martin 00-15ME

and an Epiphone Les Paul that never gets played but was my first decent guitar so won't get sold either. It lives under the bed.

I don't really want anything else either - those cover the bases.

[soggy mittens]

flippers and hipsters

[shadowplay]

flippers and hipsters

flipsters

D

[soggy mittens]