NGD - 1967 Fender Jaguar CAR

[eggwheat]

It all comes from the US, if you regularly watch reverb and eBay US..you'll see a lot of his stock a lot cheaper before he buys it in and flips it

[Despot]

I can't ever seem to find these bargains when I go on fleabay or reverb ... the only place I've ever gotten a good deal has been on here, and I wouldn't buy something from here just to flip it for profit.

That being said ... I have bought two JMs on here that I did sell/flip after a while, but I didn't do that for profiteering, but more to fund other things (which ultimately led to me getting my '62 Jazzmaster, so I'm okay with that).

[mijmog]

That being said ... I have bought two JMs on here that I did sell/flip after a while, but I didn't do that for profiteering, but more to fund other things (which ultimately led to me getting my '62 Jazzmaster, so I'm okay with that).

Its ok, you don't need to justify it, you can talk to us, thats what these meetings are for, we're all friends here...

It all comes from the US, if you regularly watch reverb and eBay US..you'll see a lot of his stock a lot cheaper before he buys it in and flips it

Thought that might be the case. I have all my saved searches set to UK/EU only so I miss out on the US stuff.

[Despot]

It was just this one time.

Okay, it was just those two times...

[Despot]

Last night ... about three beers in, I came up with the perfect name for this guitar.

The Snaguar.

[mgeek]

Thought that might be the case. I have all my saved searches set to UK/EU only so I miss out on the US stuff.

Every time I go to reverb it shows me some UK search and I have to undo it. 99.9999999999999999% of guitars I see online I'm not going to buy, so I'd prefer to see pictures of all of them and just deal with the 'seller not shipping' non problem in my own way.

[Despot]

Right. I've now had the guitar apart and under blacklight.

And ... it black lights properly (as in - it looks like old paint under black light).

That area that looked like a refinish ... well, it appears as this:


It looks like there was a sticker of some sort put on by a previous owner (Bill, clearly). The orange peel effect I can see when I hold it to the light is either the effect of trying to buff out the remains of the sticker or where the underside/glue of the sticker reacted with the finish.

But the positive is that it looks like the finish hasn't been messed with or refinished - the most that has been done is buff/polishing around where the sticker had been put on it.

Oh yeah - and the decal repair comes up as black ... it's obvious under the light and as I thought it doesn't extend beyond the edges of the repaired part of the decal - the rest of the headstock is perfect.

I guess having fully looked the gift horse in the mouth I have to say .. yeah ... it really is that clean. The area around the sticker is obvious under black light, and maybe should have been declared in the original sale, but it is all original, per the ad.

[eggwheat]

hah thats really funny..the blacklight reveals all. Good news.. I thought the place you bought it from didn't reveal the decal repair?

[Despot]

The place I bought it from didn't - but Atoyboy did.

It's a minor thing - I'm not too pushed about it. I'm much happier knowing that it's straight.

There were lines on the edges that I thought were where it was masked off/over sprayed - but looking at it again I think this guitar spent years in a case and that line is from where the guitar sat against the lining - slightly at an angle because these old cases are a loose fit.

In fairness both (orange peel and unusual straight line) are red flags ... but there's no way I can think that you'd fake that 'tan' from the sticker in a new finish. Now at least I'm happy to know all issues what it.

[PixMix]

Amazing to find one in that shape. Congrats!

[sookwinder]

Hey Kevin, bit late to this party ... been in the UK for the past week on business ...
Nice looking Jag and a 67 model is very rare... I have only seen half a dozen well documented 67 Jags in photos , never in real life.
Many claim 67 by a rough approximation on the serial no date... but as I said very few via other stamp evidence.

Just looked at the "decal issue".
Can I throw the following into the ring, from the library section, the PAT nos. look like it is a 65/66 decal.
http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/vie ... 29&t=75080

Late 1965 – Early 1966
PAT. 2,960,900 2,972.923 3,143,028 2,741,146 DES. 186,826 PAT. PEND

Mid 1966 – Very late 1967
DES. 186,826 PAT. 2,960,900 2,972,923 3,143,028 2,817,261 2,741,146 & PAT PEND

At this point the Entire decal changes with the “Fender” now being black with gold outline.
An “R” in a circle is placed above the “r” in Fender

Late 1967 / Early 1968 – Early 1970s Decal runs over two lines (and is centred)
PAT. 2,960,900 2,972,923 3,143,028 2,741,146
3,236,930 3,260,148 DES. 186,826

[Despot]

Yeah ... that's weird.

The paint on the headstock backlights as original (or at least consistent with the rest of the guitar - it's the same tone all over apart from the replaced part of the decal, which lights up 'black/dark') and the heel stamp is Sept '67 ... but the 7 of the date is blurry (as is the neck width - it's a A by the way - I don't need to see the stamp for that, I've owned a few and recognised the width as soon as I played an open E chord). If that number is anything it's a 7 though - the shape is different than the 6 beside it lacking any sort of lower loop on the right side, and being B&B there's no way it's a 5.

The decal itself is aged and has clearly been on the guitar for a long time ... I'd say the degree of ink deterioration is at least consistent with the rest of the guitar in terms of ageing (i.e. it's aged, but aged not as much as I've seen on some guitars as it clearly spent a lot of it's life being babied - apart from the owner sticker/name!).

It's an odd one David. I'll stick my neck out here and say that the decal is original to the guitar - the fact that it lights right (and the repair is so obvious) makes me think it's original. I'm basing the rest of the finish being original on how it lights as well as the sticker effect on the finish (the orange peel). I can't think how you'd fake that so it would black light that way (or why you'd go to that effort). Also ... this isn't a Strat or Tele! It's a Jaguar, and they're still the cheapest/least valuable of non-student model '60s Fenders. Why would you fake one - and if this has been faked beyond the decal it's been done to a degree of perfection that would probably cost more than the upcharge you'd get from selling this is mint instead of used.

So, yeah. There's a lot about this guitar that makes me scratch my head - but having pulled the damn thing apart from every angle I'm happy with what it is. Given it's condition I'm going to try to be more careful with it than I usually would be with an offset ... the damn thing could pass for a reissue at a distance!

[sookwinder]

Remember Leo was cheap...
- an older 66 neck not stamped for same reason, then stamped with 67
- a 67 neck with an older "use up all stock" decal...

lots of possibilities
"

[Despot]

I love stuff like this - it's why I follow Charlie Gelber's ES335 site as well ... there are so many times when he finds guitars that 'shouldn't exist' but actually do - guitars with PAFs fitted long after the introduction of Patent Numbers, colours that were supposedly not done in that particular year ... you live and you learn.

I guess now we have an exception to the decal years rule.

Also ... I've been playing both this and the ES335 a lot for the last week, but more so this in the last few days. Even with the dead frets it still rings out - this guitar is going to be perfect when it's re-fretted. But what gets me is how much it feels like I'm playing an AVRI or AV65.

If anyone ever wanted to know how good the AV65 Jaguar is compared to a relatively unplayed old one ... I'd say they're really close. Honestly. The things that would usually differentiate an old guitar from a new one (wear - particularly on the neck) aren't a factor here. I know mileage varies and some AV65s are better than others - but I've played a few that are as resonant and zingy as this '67. The pickups are a little different - but not much. That's got to be the difference between new magnets and degaussed old magnets...

So well done Fender - their vintage reissues certainly measure up against this one.

[MuscleDad420]

BILL

Well, I do believe you have a name for the guitar now.