59 Jazzmaster humming in all positions - what to do?

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
Post Reply
User avatar
Guitarman555
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:36 pm

59 Jazzmaster humming in all positions - what to do?

Post by Guitarman555 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:58 am

I bought a 59 jazzmaster, repaired whammy, but there is another problem (I dont know if it happend after my opening the pickguard or was already when I bought.). It hums in all positions, including middle. Which is most obvious on the middle position, which is normally at jazzies and all guitars much lower than on the bridge or neck.... I think it will be a wire from the input not well connected, shielding, but not sure at all... Does anybody know? Many thanks.

User avatar
PJazzmaster
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 4717
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:59 am
Location: Bo Diddley Technical Institute of Cryptozoology (European HQ)

Re: 59 Jazzmaster humming in all positions - what to do?

Post by PJazzmaster » Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:48 am

59? Worst year! They are all bad, send it to me and you‘ll get my perfectly working Squier instead. I need some old clothwire and wood for some other project so I could for sure find use for some of the crappy 59 parts. Deal?







Okok, sorry. I couldn‘t resist. :fp: Did it happen after removing the pickguard. It could be that a pot, the input jack or the 3 way switch is touching the shielding. Check that first, ok?

User avatar
Marc
Expat
Expat
Posts: 907
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:25 pm
Location: South West UK

Re: 59 Jazzmaster humming in all positions - what to do?

Post by Marc » Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:31 am

Check the ground wire that connects to the tremolo which is just sandwiched between the body and the trem plate. If not that, it could be a faulty pot or a bad cap. I don't know if your guitar has virgin solder joints - if it has it could be a problem as you won't want to start taking things out of the circuit to see if it isolates the hum. I guess you could give the solder-joints a but of a prod with a chop stick to see if that makes a difference and just needs reflowing.

User avatar
Guitarman555
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: 59 Jazzmaster humming in all positions - what to do?

Post by Guitarman555 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:08 am

Marc wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:31 am
Check the ground wire that connects to the tremolo which is just sandwiched between the body and the trem plate. If not that, it could be a faulty pot or a bad cap. I don't know if your guitar has virgin solder joints - if it has it could be a problem as you won't want to start taking things out of the circuit to see if it isolates the hum. I guess you could give the solder-joints a but of a prod with a chop stick to see if that makes a difference and just needs reflowing.
Hey, I am not sure if I understend both possibles problem cases: 1. So the ground wire should lead from tremolo(what part of tremolo(tail?) and should be solder jointed where exctly?) and and where excactly between trem plate and body it should end and to what place connected ? I will check it then.
2. And for the joints - you mean to check the solder joints and if they are ok means that then it could be a cap, or other things in circuit?
3. This sentence I cann´t understant - I am not English native, sorry: "I guess you could give the solder-joints a but of a prod with a chop stick to see if that makes a difference and just needs reflowing." Could you try to use different words? Many thanks to you!

User avatar
Guitarman555
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: 59 Jazzmaster humming in all positions - what to do?

Post by Guitarman555 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:08 am

;D
PJazzmaster wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:48 am
59? Worst year! They are all bad, send it to me and you‘ll get my perfectly working Squier instead. I need some old clothwire and wood for some other project so I could for sure find use for some of the crappy 59 parts. Deal?







Okok, sorry. I couldn‘t resist. :fp: Did it happen after removing the pickguard. It could be that a pot, the input jack or the 3 way switch is touching the shielding. Check that first, ok?

User avatar
bencrit
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 235
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:25 am

Re: 59 Jazzmaster humming in all positions - what to do?

Post by bencrit » Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:44 am

Guitarman555 wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:08 am
Marc wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:31 am
Check the ground wire that connects to the tremolo which is just sandwiched between the body and the trem plate. If not that, it could be a faulty pot or a bad cap. I don't know if your guitar has virgin solder joints - if it has it could be a problem as you won't want to start taking things out of the circuit to see if it isolates the hum. I guess you could give the solder-joints a but of a prod with a chop stick to see if that makes a difference and just needs reflowing.
Hey, I am not sure if I understend both possibles problem cases: 1. So the ground wire should lead from tremolo(what part of tremolo(tail?) and should be solder jointed where exctly?) and and where excactly between trem plate and body it should end and to what place connected ? I will check it then.
2. And for the joints - you mean to check the solder joints and if they are ok means that then it could be a cap, or other things in circuit?
3. This sentence I cann´t understant - I am not English native, sorry: "I guess you could give the solder-joints a but of a prod with a chop stick to see if that makes a difference and just needs reflowing." Could you try to use different words? Many thanks to you!
Here is some help with the last sentence.

What he means is that you could use a small wooden stick (like a chopstick or a toothpick) to gently press on the solder joints to see if anything is loose.

I would be very careful doing that.

More likely you are having some kind of grounding problem.

If you touch part of the metal on your amplifier while holding the guitar, does that remove the hum or buzz? You can also touch the metal part of the cable plugged into the input jack. It that takes it away, its probably a grounding problem.

Also, make sure to try several amps so that you know the problem is definitely with the guitar, and not on the amplifier.

User avatar
Guitarman555
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: 59 Jazzmaster humming in all positions - what to do?

Post by Guitarman555 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:46 am

bencrit wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:44 am
Guitarman555 wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:08 am
Marc wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:31 am
Check the ground wire that connects to the tremolo which is just sandwiched between the body and the trem plate. If not that, it could be a faulty pot or a bad cap. I don't know if your guitar has virgin solder joints - if it has it could be a problem as you won't want to start taking things out of the circuit to see if it isolates the hum. I guess you could give the solder-joints a but of a prod with a chop stick to see if that makes a difference and just needs reflowing.
Hey, I am not sure if I understend both possibles problem cases: 1. So the ground wire should lead from tremolo(what part of tremolo(tail?) and should be solder jointed where exctly?) and and where excactly between trem plate and body it should end and to what place connected ? I will check it then.
2. And for the joints - you mean to check the solder joints and if they are ok means that then it could be a cap, or other things in circuit?
3. This sentence I cann´t understant - I am not English native, sorry: "I guess you could give the solder-joints a but of a prod with a chop stick to see if that makes a difference and just needs reflowing." Could you try to use different words? Many thanks to you!
Here is some help with the last sentence.

What he means is that you could use a small wooden stick (like a chopstick or a toothpick) to gently press on the solder joints to see if anything is loose.

I would be very careful doing that.

More likely you are having some kind of grounding problem.

If you touch part of the metal on your amplifier while holding the guitar, does that remove the hum or buzz? You can also touch the metal part of the cable plugged into the input jack. It that takes it away, its probably a grounding problem.

Also, make sure to try several amps so that you know the problem is definitely with the guitar, and not on the amplifier.
Many thanks. Yes, the problem stays will all amps. In my second Jazzmaster, which is working perfect, when I touch the strings, the buzz is gone (maybe this is connected to your mentioned grounding wire to trem plate). In the 59 Jazzy that has the buzzing poblem, when I touch the string, nothing happens. But when I touch the jack close the input to the guitar, buzz disappers. What do you think? I bet grounding and to control wire connection on trem plate?

User avatar
timtam
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:42 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: 59 Jazzmaster humming in all positions - what to do?

Post by timtam » Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:20 pm

Guitarman555 wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:46 am
In my second Jazzmaster, which is working perfect, when I touch the strings, the buzz is gone (maybe this is connected to your mentioned grounding wire to trem plate).
That is the correct pattern - your body is grounded when you touch grounded metal. Therefore the EMI hum you attracted is reduced.
Guitarman555 wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:46 am

In the 59 Jazzy that has the buzzing poblem, when I touch the string, nothing happens. But when I touch the jack close the input to the guitar, buzz disappers. What do you think? I bet grounding and to control wire connection on trem plate?
Sounds like the trem/bridge/strings are not grounded. To test, run a wire outside the guitar from the metal jack cover to the trem. If that is the problem, the hum should reduce like in your other guitar.

I am not 100% familiar with how 59s were grounded. Could be a ground wire to the trem cavity or a string thimble, or both. Since the bridge and trem are connected by the strings, only one needs a ground wire in order to ground both (unless you have non-metallic saddles). If it has a pickguard shield that needs to be grounded too.

Being a vintage instrument (unmodified ?), I would send it to someone who is used to working on vintage jazzmasters.

User avatar
Guitarman555
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:36 pm

Re: 59 Jazzmaster humming in all positions - what to do?

Post by Guitarman555 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:47 am

timtam wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 5:20 pm
Guitarman555 wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:46 am
In my second Jazzmaster, which is working perfect, when I touch the strings, the buzz is gone (maybe this is connected to your mentioned grounding wire to trem plate).
That is the correct pattern - your body is grounded when you touch grounded metal. Therefore the EMI hum you attracted is reduced.
Guitarman555 wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:46 am

In the 59 Jazzy that has the buzzing poblem, when I touch the string, nothing happens. But when I touch the jack close the input to the guitar, buzz disappers. What do you think? I bet grounding and to control wire connection on trem plate?
Sounds like the trem/bridge/strings are not grounded. To test, run a wire outside the guitar from the metal jack cover to the trem. If that is the problem, the hum should reduce like in your other guitar.

I am not 100% familiar with how 59s were grounded. Could be a ground wire to the trem cavity or a string thimble, or both. Since the bridge and trem are connected by the strings, only one needs a ground wire in order to ground both (unless you have non-metallic saddles). If it has a pickguard shield that needs to be grounded too.

Being a vintage instrument (unmodified ?), I would send it to someone who is used to working on vintage jazzmasters.
Hey, Tim, I will check it, so if I understand, when I connect with a wire outside of guitar input and tremolo together and after if all works properly, the problem is grounding. Does anybody know, how grounding in 59 jazzmaster is done? Where exactly wire should be connected to tremolo and where exactly to input?

User avatar
timtam
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:42 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: 59 Jazzmaster humming in all positions - what to do?

Post by timtam » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:23 am

Yes, connect something like the green test lead shown here.
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index ... 1533847600
If the hum goes away, then a lack of trem/bridge/string grounding is the problem. If the hum doesn't go away, it's some other problem. Take it to a good tech.

If ground is the problem, open up the trem cavity. If you see a wire, then that's how the trem is supposed to be grounded. It should probably be sandwiched between the trem and the body, so as to make good contact with the trem. If it's not, fix it. The other end of that wire should be connected to a ground point somewhere in the main cavity - back of a pot, output jack, or (grounded) brass shielding plate; it doesn't matter which one. If the trem ground was already touching the trem, then the cavity ground connection has probably been lost. It would need to be restored by soldering. If the ground wire connection looks OK already, take it to a tech to find the real problem.

If there is no trem ground wire you could add one, but since it's a vintage instrument I wouldn't. The true ground will be somewhere else, maybe the bridge thimble hole. That's hard to see without taking the thimble out. So look for a wire coming into the main control cavity through the side wall near the thimble. Re-solder that wire's ground connection to any ground point in the cavity if its connection there is broken. If instead the connection looks to be OK, take it to a tech.

BTW if you have a multimeter this whole thing will be mech easier. You can test for continuity (approx 0 ohms resistance) between the trem and the ground tab on the output jack.

BTW if the guitar is an unmodified vintage instrument and you make changes to solder joints, you will decrease its value in some people's eyes.

User avatar
Marc
Expat
Expat
Posts: 907
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:25 pm
Location: South West UK

Re: 59 Jazzmaster humming in all positions - what to do?

Post by Marc » Sat Aug 11, 2018 2:46 am

Sorry I've been away.... just wanted to add that if the ground leading to the tremolo tailpiece looks like an old guitar string that is what Fender sometimes used on Jms and is original rather than someone's idea of a quick repair!

Post Reply