NGD: 1964 Jaguar (Refin)

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.

NGD: 1964 Jaguar (Refin)

Postby cestlamort » Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:23 pm

I saw a bad picture online (for a more than decent price), listed as a 1964 Jaguar (refin), so I hit the "buy" button. It arrived on Friday (and it can be returned if dodgy).

Neck stamp 1 Mar 64 B. "L" serial number. Clay dots. It looks to be a body-only refin, but the body and the headstock appear to have yellowed at different rates (or rather, the body lighted up significantly, so it no longer matches the headstock). Body finish has some wear and checking plus a number of dings and the like (and some weird drips on the back). Frets seem relatively new. The neck feels really great, honestly. Sounds quite good (much fuller than I remember with my only other Jag, one of the thin skins).

Anything else we can surmise? Replaced pots? (The taper seems weird on these, honestly, going from full with the volume to ultra muffled in a quarter turn or so). Is the body the same year? etc.

Sorry for the lack of natural light -- Seattle in January....

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full album here

I'd had my eye out for a white jaguar after seeing one at the (local) Thunder Road guitars, only to have it sell pretty much immediately. Weirdly, I went in there on Friday (waiting for this one to defrost from shipping) and that same one was there (1962, total refin), as was an all-original 1964.
Last edited by cestlamort on Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NGD: 1964 Jaguar (Refin)

Postby dc » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:07 pm

"out there the Snow Queen is kidnapping boys" -- s. kilbey 8)
in this land / right now / some are insane / and they're in charge
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Re: NGD: 1964 Jaguar (Refin)

Postby BoringPostcards » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:41 pm

Beautiful! Good score!
"Can you please pass me a jug of winter light?"
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Re: NGD: 1964 Jaguar (Refin)

Postby sookwinder » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:19 am

Is the headstock finish original... hence it may account for looking different from the body

black or grey bobbin pups ?
relaxing alternative to doing actual work ...
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Re: NGD: 1964 Jaguar (Refin)

Postby cestlamort » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:22 am

Thanks. I'm pretty excited about this one. I've never had a vintage Fender before -- it feels somehow in a different class than the reissues. (which is no surprise, right?)

I think that the headstock (and neck) is the original finish, and would guess that they tried to match the color when the refin was done, but the body has since lightened (and maybe the h/s darkened?). It doesn't look like there's an undercoat on the body, as the chips go straight to wood.

I forgot to look at the pickup bobbins. The pole pieces are definitely staggered. I'll take a peek when I change the strings.

I'd thought the pots may have been changed, but they do look like these although the volume on mine seems to be 2 meg instead of 1 meg here. Curious.

Any idea about the bridge? It looks pretty clean, honestly.

It might make some sense to contact the store with on the business card shim (Parkway Music) to see if they can provide some back story (although it lists an email and website for the store, so probably they worked on it only in the last few years or so). That store is in NY, I bought it from a store in California, so something happened in between. (Cue opening sequence of the Greyhound bus to Sunset Strip from the Guns N Roses "welcome to the jangle" (sic) video)

Also: It came with what looks to be the original case. The dividers, etc, came loose at some point in its life. Someone used small nails to try to nail it back in place (from the outside of the case). Are there better ways for stabilizing the storage compartment? Bonus: It was also over-stuffed with three vintage older curly cables. One VOX Japan black cable, one unlabeled blue one (greening some) and an unlabeled black one (which doesn't work), plus a normal modern straight cable (with velcro).
Last edited by cestlamort on Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NGD: 1964 Jaguar (Refin)

Postby MechaBulletBill » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:08 am

Vintage curly cables are ace. I've got a really hefty one that says Fender on it and lived with my grandad's 70s P bass. He was a tinkerer so I think he put non-original plugs on the end but the cable itself is much thicker and heavier than anything modern I've come across.
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Re: NGD: 1964 Jaguar (Refin)

Postby otis » Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:16 am

nice guitar; I have it's sibling Jazzmaster; also a white refin.
It strikes me as very odd that the white under the pickguard is more an off-white and the exposed part is so much whiter.
You'd expect the opposite, actually...
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Re: NGD: 1964 Jaguar (Refin)

Postby holty » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:32 am

Lovely looking guitar. It's odd why the body looks more faded under the pickguard, than on the main body? But a great looking guitar.
I just spotted that 62 refin at Thunder guitars on the web, did you get to play it whilst you were in the store?
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Re: NGD: 1964 Jaguar (Refin)

Postby cestlamort » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:26 am

I didn't play that 62 for more than a quick unplugged strum, unfortunately.

I am a bit baffled myself on the body on this 64 bleaching out. I can only guess that it was refinished to match the headstock and then has faded in the interim.

OSG Expats and Experts: Is there anything else I should investigate / photograph on this one?
(Other than the pickups (bobbin color))
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Re: NGD: 1964 Jaguar (Refin)

Postby kosmonautmayhem » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:52 am

Great score! I love my '63! These older Jags defintely have something greta about them vs. RIs and later CBS years.
Love the guard.

Strange about the 'reverse' fading. Can't tell from pics but what does it look like under the shielding and trem cavity. It is possible we're seeing the original paint? - seeing how it matches the (original) headstock finish in your pics.

Also re: pots. Not sure but 2Meg should make it sounds brighter. I've always wondered why my Jag had poor taper. Its the one thing keeping this guitar from being perfect. Fine if I keep it turned all the way up but it gets dark very fast almost as soon as I start to turn it down. The Tone control is more subtle. Always baffled / frustrated me but I'm somewhat hesitant to replace on an original guitar even though I plan on keeping it for the long run. :unsure:
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Re: NGD: 1964 Jaguar (Refin)

Postby eggwheat » Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:56 am

Yeh matched to the headstock in a non cellulose paint...some of the tints they use like yellow and reds fade in sunlight...leaving you the base white colour.
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Re: NGD: 1964 Jaguar (Refin)

Postby cestlamort » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:10 am

kosmonautmayhem wrote:Also re: pots. Not sure but 2Meg should make it sounds brighter. I've always wondered why my Jag had poor taper. Its the one thing keeping this guitar from being perfect. Fine if I keep it turned all the way up but it gets dark very fast almost as soon as I start to turn it down. The Tone control is more subtle. Always baffled / frustrated me but I'm somewhat hesitant to replace on an original guitar even though I plan on keeping it for the long run.

That's been my experience, too, so far. Usable for maybe 1/4 of the range, if that. And there's a bit of an imbalance between the pickups, emphasizing the neck more (a good thing, but I may adjust to even them out).

I haven't pulled the trem (yet), but I'd guess it'd be the same as under the plates.

eggwheat wrote:Yeh matched to the headstock in a non cellulose paint...some of the tints they use like yellow and reds fade in sunlight...leaving you the base white colour.

That seems to explain it well. The remaining white is very... white. (i.e., neutral / base-like). I wonder if there's a solution for that short of a complete refin (such as a tinted layer or something shortsighted that will address the issue now but compound it in 10-15 years when the other colors change). In any case, given the picture I saw and the description of "refin" I'd expected the body to be some glossy poly homemade job, and it is actually quite thin and aging nicely and interestingly. Well, other than the fading, that is.
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Re: NGD: 1964 Jaguar (Refin)

Postby Despot » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:26 am

That's really nice cestlamort - great score!

Does it have that slightly full feeling neck? Sort of a well rounded C without being a boat neck? I've a '64 L series as well (also a refin - but nowhere near as pretty as yours!) - and the neck is perfect ... a nice full C shape. It's remarkably similar to the neck of my late '62 Jazzmaster (which is stamped Dec '62, so it could well be a '63). Nothing at all like the much skinnier '62 reissue necks.
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Re: NGD: 1964 Jaguar (Refin)

Postby milanm » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:38 am

Very nice indeed!
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Re: NGD: 1964 Jaguar (Refin)

Postby mbene085 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:30 pm

cestlamort wrote:
kosmonautmayhem wrote:Also re: pots. Not sure but 2Meg should make it sounds brighter. I've always wondered why my Jag had poor taper. Its the one thing keeping this guitar from being perfect. Fine if I keep it turned all the way up but it gets dark very fast almost as soon as I start to turn it down. The Tone control is more subtle. Always baffled / frustrated me but I'm somewhat hesitant to replace on an original guitar even though I plan on keeping it for the long run.

That's been my experience, too, so far. Usable for maybe 1/4 of the range, if that. And there's a bit of an imbalance between the pickups, emphasizing the neck more (a good thing, but I may adjust to even them out).

I haven't pulled the trem (yet), but I'd guess it'd be the same as under the plates.

eggwheat wrote:Yeh matched to the headstock in a non cellulose paint...some of the tints they use like yellow and reds fade in sunlight...leaving you the base white colour.

That seems to explain it well. The remaining white is very... white. (i.e., neutral / base-like). I wonder if there's a solution for that short of a complete refin (such as a tinted layer or something shortsighted that will address the issue now but compound it in 10-15 years when the other colors change). In any case, given the picture I saw and the description of "refin" I'd expected the body to be some glossy poly homemade job, and it is actually quite thin and aging nicely and interestingly. Well, other than the fading, that is.


Yes. You can absolutely get a yellow-tinted clear coat sprayed. Just have to confirm what the body paint is so that you can spray something compatible. If it's nitro, you can spray a tinted nitro clear coat, and both the body and headstock will continue to yellow with time and UV exposure (though no guarantee at the same rate, but still).
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