The lap steel thread

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djetz
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The lap steel thread

Post by djetz » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:50 pm

OK, I'm going to officially decree that lap steels are not guitars, and belong in the "Other Instruments" thread. That's because playing a lap steel is nothing like playing guitar, it's a whole other set of skills.

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I bought this around the start of 2008, because it was cheap as hell (less than $150 Australian including postage). Got it on Ebay, there are plenty of them around, they're low grade Chinese crap - I don't have a problem with Chinese gear, they make some great stuff in China, but this is an example of the low-grade stuff. Mine is branded "Carrera" or something, I've seen the exact same thing with other brand names including "Galveston".

The reason I bought such a cheap and frankly pretty crappy steel is that I didn't know if I would really be able to get enough use out of it to make it worthwhile. I can learn on this, and if I end up playing enough steel to make it worthwhile, I can upgrade to better instruments.

I replaced the pickups (the cheapest and nastiest strat-style pickups you could find) with some inexpensive Chinese blade humbuckers, chosen because they have decent AlNiCo magnets. They actually sound pretty good, and suit the instrument well. I also swapped out the tone pot for a Bill Lawrence Q-filter, which basically (the way I wired it) attenuates the midrange, and to some extent the output, so that I can kind of sweep the "tone" from a full humbucker type sound to a more single coil-like sound. I replaced the volume pot with a better quality one, too.
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Re: The lap steel thread

Post by djetz » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:12 pm

I wanted a two-neck model because I want to be able to use a steel-specific tuning and a more regular open tuning. I've played bottleneck for years, and I'm pretty good at open D and open G, and variations thereof. I can do a lot of things in those tunings, they've become as natural to me as regular guitar tuning.

The "near" neck is tuned to C6, the particular version I chose is (low to high) C E G A C E.

The "far" neck is usually tuned to open E or something similar, I vary it a bit. Sometimes open A.

C6 is one of the tunings that was developed in the 20s and 30s in Hawaiian music, and which went on to become common in early country music - most of the steel on Hank Williams' stuff is in C6, though his players used 8 string steels. The C6 tuning I use is the same as the middle 6 strings of those 8, so I could get pretty close... if I was anywhere near good enough to play that stuff.

(Pedal steels weren't invented till the early 50s, and didn't become common till the late 50s, so most steel playing before the sixties is non-pedal).

C6 is a whole different world to standard guitar tunings, you really have to re-learn the whole thing. What it's good for is non-rock-music type harmonies, stuff that sounds completely unlike rock music. It's not too hard to play stuff that sounds "Hawaiian" of course, but making that work in a rock-music context is an interesting challenge.

One thing that's common in lap steel playing and is totally unlike anything in regular slide playing is the use of slants. That's right: slanting the steel across frets to get different chords and harmonies. If you think accurate intonation using a straight slide is hard, well... this is a whole extra level of hardness. The payoff is that if you get it right, it sounds great. You can imitate pedal steel sounds. Well, I can try, but I've heard other people do it amazingly well. Practice, practice...

So, my conclusion on the subject of playing steel is: it's difficult, there's not much crossover between regular guitar techniques or even slide techniques and playing steel, you really have to approach it as a different instrument... but it's a lot of fun, if you like a challenge.
Last edited by djetz on Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The lap steel thread

Post by djetz » Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:17 pm

Unfortunately I've had a lot of other shit to worry about in recent times, so my playing of any instrument has really fallen off. I haven't pulled out the steel in a while, I've really only been playing acoustic slide in recent months. But I will get back into learning to steel, if and when I get my life crises sorted out...

So... if anyone else has a lap steel, let's see it. If anyone can actually play one, even better, let's hear about it/hear it. I kind of wish I had something presentable recorded, but I didn't get that far with it before life intervened...
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Re: The lap steel thread

Post by Orang Goreng » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:36 am

Coolness. I don't have one, so I have liitle of use to add. I wonder if my dad used to play one, though. After he died, I found two really nice slide bars is his stuff, one of them ergonomically shaped. I'll see if I can find it somewhere, it's a really nice piece of kit.
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Re: The lap steel thread

Post by djetz » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:49 am

Orang Goreng wrote: Coolness. I don't have one, so I have liitle of use to add. I wonder if my dad used to play one, though. After he died, I found two really nice slide bars is his stuff, one of them ergonomically shaped. I'll see if I can find it somewhere, it's a really nice piece of kit.
Steel guitar (and Hawaiian music and early country music) was hugely popular in the Asia-Pacific area, so it's entirely possible. I've seen lap steels that were made by Maori craftsmen in New Zealand and feature authentic southern hemisphere Polynesian decoration: utter coolness. Real tikis, made by the people who invented them. Awesome.
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Re: The lap steel thread

Post by fuzzjunkie » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:51 am

i used to play an old Gretsch tuned to Dm7. I really want to replace it but the price on vintage tripled the last few years  :o

the double neck is a cool idea! two different tunings would rock! I keep my offsets in all sorts of open tunings...only my Gibson is in standard.

the slant thing came pretty natural to me, so much that when I played a bottleneck on my Tele (open G) I switched to playing it over the top if I wasn't fingering partial chords or hammering with the other fingers. I don't approach any guitar or string instrument like it's the same as any other, if that makes sense*,  but I didn't have much trouble adapting to lap steel...pedal steel is another story!

*maybe it is the different tuning thing or just my nature, but every string instrument plays and sounds differently to me, so I don't play my Tele like my JM, my Jag like the Gibson, or a lap steel like an Ud...and I play a mean Ud!
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Re: The lap steel thread

Post by djetz » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:44 pm

fuzzjunkie wrote: I used to play an old Gretsch tuned to Dm7. I really want to replace it but the price on vintage tripled the last few years
I think, especially with the name brands, that a lot of the old ones have been raped for their parts, pickups especially.  :'(
fuzzjunkie wrote: the double neck is a cool idea! two different tunings would rock! I keep my offsets in all sorts of open tunings...only my Gibson is in standard.
Yeah, I wanted to be able to switch between "good" and "evil" tunings, mid song. And, of course, having both on at once means you can drone one or more strings on the neck you aren't using, just reach over and twang it/them every couple of bars.
fuzzjunkie wrote: the slant thing came pretty natural to me, so much that when I played a bottleneck on my Tele (open G) I switched to playing it over the top if I wasn't fingering partial chords or hammering with the other fingers.
I have found that some lap steel technique can be transferred across to bottleneck style, slants work pretty well in open G tuning. And yes, it's better to adapt yourself to the nature of your instrument than to try to adapt the instrument to yourself. They all have their individual natures. I don't see the point in having two instruments that do the same thing, I like variety.
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Re: The lap steel thread

Post by idiotbear » Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:38 am

I would love to play steel, although I have a real hankering to play pedal. I know it's crazily difficult, but to me, both lap and pedal steel are among the most beautiful sounds in the wide universe. I love the idea of using all those bending dyads to just voice my music completely differently.

Actually, there's a bunch of non-standard instruments I really want. Well, non standard for rock music. I want a mandolin, a mandocello, an autoharp, a pedal steel, a celesta - when I think about the music I could make with those sounds, I almost weep for the lack of cash.  :'(

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Re: The lap steel thread

Post by djetz » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:31 am

idiotbear wrote: I would love to play steel, although I have a real hankering to play pedal. I know it's crazily difficult, but to me, both lap and pedal steel are among the most beautiful sounds in the wide universe. I love the idea of using all those bending dyads to just voice my music completely differently.

Actually, there's a bunch of non-standard instruments I really want. Well, non standard for rock music. I want a mandolin, a mandocello, an autoharp, a pedal steel, a celesta - when I think about the music I could make with those sounds, I almost weep for the lack of cash.  :'(
Yep, pedal steel is amazing. My decision to go with the lap steel was based mostly on price, and also the fact that a lap steel (even a double neck) is a lot more portable.
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Re: The lap steel thread

Post by Jonesie » Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:43 pm

I actually just grabbed a lap steel a week ago at guitar center. It's just a little "rogue" brand one, but hey. For $60 including legs for it to stand on, a really nice soft case, and the slide, I think I did pretty well.

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Re: The lap steel thread

Post by bdm » Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:32 pm

i picked up my 50s alamo jet off of craigslist for $125 with the original case and a tone bar.

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it's been a great, cheap way to make the move into steel guitar. the original knobs were cracked so i replaced them with some standard gibson style knobs. i actually like the look better. the pots needed a good cleaning. i ended up taking out the original extremely microphonic pick-up and installing a rio grande muy grande tele bridge pickup. now it's a little more balanced with my teles. i usually use it with a ernie ball volume pedal jr, boss tuner and klon (to give is a little more mellow-ness and drive) through an 80s fender princeton reverb II.

i tune to a bastardized open E (low to high): B, D, G, B, E, G

i tend to stay away from attempting anything too "blues" or "riffy". i'm trying to approximate more melodic and lyrical pseudo-pedal steel lines. it's been great fun a real challenge so far and just nice to get myself into a new mental frame work for playing.
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Re: The lap steel thread

Post by Brock the Mod » Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:51 pm

I like that Alamo Jet...

its verrryyy simple.
Make like a tree... and fuck off.

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Re: The lap steel thread

Post by marqueemoon » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:27 pm

Sorry for the old thread bump, but it's high time I learned how to actually play my damn lap steel. It's something I could work on at home at night without bothering anyone.

Based on what I've heard it seems like C6 is the way to go tuning-wise for country/Hawaiian-type playing. Yes/no?

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Re: The lap steel thread

Post by mackerelmint » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:40 pm

Good zombie thread. C6 seems to be pretty popular for country, at least for 6 strings, but everything I do sounds like Hawaii.

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Re: The lap steel thread

Post by Shadoweclipse13 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:39 pm

mackerelmint wrote:Good zombie thread. C6 seems to be pretty popular for country, at least for 6 strings, but everything I do sounds like Hawaii.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQz_WjTn68U

My go-to for lap steel is either Dredg (above) or David Gilmour's playing (classic Dark Side Of The Moon, or even better, High Hopes' solo live '94 :? )
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