Could any synth module/rack synth users point me in a good starter direction...?

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Could any synth module/rack synth users point me in a good starter direction...?

Post by stevejamsecono » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:56 am

Hey Folks,
My role in my new band is starting to expand from just playing the bass to more general noisemaking, and as such I'd like to add to the chaos by adding a little synthesizer rig to my present bass/guitar rig.
At first I was looking into the Alesis Micron because it seemed like a nice little synth that would do exactly what I wanted, and it would remain compact. (I may still do this, but just for the sake of being cheap...)
The other option that was broached to me was getting a synth module to hook up to my MAUDIO midi keyboard (61 keys.. very nice). That being said, I'm kind of unfamiliar with available (or old) synth modules, or where to even start looking for them. I've poked around the vintage synth explorer website and gotten a few ideas, but I figured someone here would probably know a lot about it (we've had an excelllent track record so far for having "that guy/girl" on this forum for pretty much anything).
As far as sounds that I'd need/want, I'd like passable piano/organ sounds, and then I'd say my interests would be in a nice variety of pads and fat bass sounds. I don't tend to play Moogish leads in this band (nor would I really want them... despite what one of our guitar players says... ), so it'd more go along like... I dunno "Disentigration" era Cure sounds and that kind of thing.

but yeah, enough babbling from me. What's out there, what's a good deal? It seems like rack synths/modules are a bit out of vogue so they can be gotten on the cheap lately.

Thanks

-Steve
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Re: Could any synth module/rack synth users point me in a good starter direction...?

Post by i love sharin foo » Sat Sep 20, 2008 2:59 pm

Sorry, I don't have any recommendations, but I am interested in this, too.

justin
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Re: Could any synth module/rack synth users point me in a good starter direction

Post by stevejamsecono » Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:59 pm

:'( Anyone?! P-p-p-please?
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Re: Could any synth module/rack synth users point me in a good starter direction

Post by glimmertwin » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:55 pm

...the difficulty with that is your asking for one board to do two entirely different type of functions.  Most of the boards that do semi-realistic pianos/organs are ROMplers and have limited true synth capabilities.  On the other hand if you want a synth, you'll get only approximations of pianos and organs-but won't fool most if your trying to pass them off as such.  And one more thing that complicates matters is if your looking for a synth for more textural things, I actually think you should also look into getting a side chain of effects as most on board effects for synths are lacking in some way...

Now there are solutions, but at a higher price point.  I spend most of my time switching between keys & guitar and finally I broke down and sold a lot of crap to get a used Nord Stage Compact so I could have one keyboard that did most everything.  I love it but I understand it's not the most cost friendly option at all.

So if your looking for a ROM board, try one of the old Roland XP series keyboards - that or the JV series rack units.  They can be loaded up with all kinds of sounds.  I used to have an XP-60 that served it's purpose for a while.  Synth editing is awful on these but you can get some cards for it that do famous keyboard sounds and those were actually pretty good - just hard to edit more than the basics. 

Another option(especially if you already have a controller keyboard) would be to use an existing computer you have and try your hand at some soft synths and soundbanks - maybe pick up an old version of Reason or something.  Just make sure your computer is capably of low latency because that will be the death of you if you play live. 

If you don't have to have a sample set of realistic sounding pianos and organs, you could probably program some piano & organ like sounds on most any poly synth.  The Micron could probably work although I haven't personally tried to do that with one.  I have a Microkorg that I like - nearly every band has one it seems and I was really resistant for a long time but I needed the sequencer & appregiator because those were two things my Nord was missing.  It does have it's limitations(small keys, limited access to all the synth editing features) but I'm using it with a master controller and I don't tweak a lot in performance so I don't mind it.  Mine has a decent EP & organ sound but I haven't heard a piano sound out of it yet although I haven't really tried either. 

If you can save up a little bit more, I think the Nord Lead 2 is a freaking monster synth and a great value for the money when purchased used.  It tries to sound like a Prophet and I remember it having some decent EP & organ sounds and the pianoish sounds were...there.  I sold mine to buy an amp a long time ago.  They are cool little rack units though.
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Re: Could any synth module/rack synth users point me in a good starter direction...?

Post by Jonesie » Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:08 pm

Yeah, I'm the said other guitarist above.

I'd say the Pads and such are more of a priority than the piano/organ sounds. Because I'm actually using an 88 key Yamaha S08 live for just that feature.

I found a roland MT-32 for stupidly cheap, and judging by the sound clips it should do exactly what we want, and be pretty death-proof.

Any thoughts?

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Re: Could any synth module/rack synth users point me in a good starter direction

Post by glimmertwin » Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:39 pm

FWIW, Roger O'Donnel says on his website he used his Sequential Circuits VS2000/2002 for work in the Psychedelic Furs and Disintegration era Cure.  Basically it's a lo-fi sampler that you loaded with new sounds via a disc drive.  I guess the point is, it wasn't a synth but rather some manipulated samples he was using. 
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Re: Could any synth module/rack synth users point me in a good starter direction...?

Post by BlixaFan » Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:07 pm

its hard to say. i've personally never been into romplers, and have always preferred VAs. Id recommend the nord lead 2 or an access virus B/C when it comes to synths. the nord would be easier to program because it doesnt rely on any menus at all, whereas the virus has a lot of its deeper functions in menus.

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Re: Could any synth module/rack synth users point me in a good starter direction

Post by haesslich » Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:40 pm

glimmertwin wrote: So if your looking for a ROM board, try one of the old Roland XP series keyboards - that or the JV series rack units. 
+1 on that.
their synth-capabilities are really good even though thei're romplers. everything what's usefull in a band context is there, but you won't become next vangelis.
they're kind of cheap (especially the jv1080). you can start with a bunch of good allround-sounds and maybe add a cheap VA synth later for more synth-power.

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Re: Could any synth module/rack synth users point me in a good starter direction...?

Post by pj » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:40 am

For general noise making I would suggest checking out a Line 6 Filter Modeller. It has some synth patches that are very cool sounding and you can blend them with the regular guitar sound too. The synth patches are all mono so you can't really play chords w/ them. Very cool for noise making. I like one patch in particular, "The Growler", because it is like an autowah/synth/harmonizer. Very obnoxious in a cool way.

Check one of these pedals out before plunking down all the money for a gtr synth. You don't need any hex p/u nonsense with these pedals either. They are limited compared to a full-blown gtr synth, but quite versatile if you are interested in cool/out sounds and timbres.

:)PJ

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Re: Could any synth module/rack synth users point me in a good starter direction...?

Post by fibreman » Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:06 am

Unless you're a sucker for punishment or really need those piano sounds, i'd steer clear of modules.  The MT32 is basically junk by todays standards, if it was £20 and I didn't have anything else making sounds I might be tempted to take a risk on it, but I wouldn't spend any more on it.

The menus on these things are horrible, but pretty much any Roland XP/JV/XV series unit will get you a bit of everything to play with.  I had a Generalmusic S2R rack synth for a while, got a bit of mileage out of it despite the dog of an operating system, if you can find one these days they'll go for about £150-200.  I'd give you mine but it's well and truly cream-crackered.

Besides, I wouldn't recommend it to my own worst enemy, unless you don't plan to go past the presets.  For proper non-geek style synth editing, you want a decent VA synth with proper knobs on it.

I currently use an Alesis Ion live.  It's the big version of the Micron, the same sound engine but more knobs to play with, 8 note polyphonic. Wide range of sounds, a good choice of filters too, various emulations of famous low pass/high pass/band pass/comb and formant filters.  It's a little bit fizzier than a 'proper' analogue but on a good day of programming it isn't far off at all.  No reverb, but nothing you can't get from an outboard unit (Alesis nanoverb/picoverb are ace for this) or a guitar pedal.  It's no coincidence that indie bands with a nu rave-electro slant are more or less all using Microns, they're small, powerful, and easy to use.

There are plenty of secondhand buys worth looking out for on the VA front though.  Roland JP8000/8080, Nord Lead 2, Korg MS2000, Novation Supernova are all highly respected VA synths capable of getting you great analogue sounding pads, basses, warm electric piano type sounds, and organs.  They all excel at proper synth stuff though, leads and basses especially.  Second hand would definitely be the way to go if you want to punch above your weight in terms of features to cost.  There are other cheaper synths out there, particularly FM synths, but they're much more of an acquired taste, and generally not as straightforward to program as a VA. The Yamaha DX7 and Korg M1 go in this category.  If you buy one of these you should factor in the cost of a pair of stonewashed Levi's, plain white t-shirt and and tailored suit jacket with the sleeves rolled up.

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Re: Could any synth module/rack synth users point me in a good starter direction...?

Post by stevejamsecono » Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:45 am

Some good information from everyone. Thanks a lot!
I'll have to research more into this and look more into VA synths, it sounds like they might be more of what i'm after.
I'm honestly not a huge huge tweaker, I just want a bank of interesting sounds, and the ability to mess with them a little. So it sounds like either the Micron or the Ion might be right up my alley... we shall see...

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Re: Could any synth module/rack synth users point me in a good starter direction...?

Post by fibreman » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:33 am

Ion & Micron are good although out of 512 presets I found about 10 useful ones.  These things always have duff presets but to have so many bad ones... quite a few sound-a-like ones too. Baba O'Reilly! Won't Get Fooled! Wakeman!  Luckily it's not too difficult to program.

If your computer can run them it might be worth hunting down a couple of VA-style soft synth demos - it'll help you get your head around the tweaking before you make any rash decisions based on preset ear candy.

If I was in the second hand market at the moment i'd be seriously focussing my attention towards the JP8000/8080 (future classic, easy to use, prices now rising) and Novation Supernova (very underrated, currently at bargain prices) myself.  The KS4 and KS5 are smaller and even cheaper versions of the Supernova, basically, the sound engine is very similar.  They have a lot of 'trance-y' presets loaded up, but the effects are good and quality sounds abound.

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Re: Could any synth module/rack synth users point me in a good starter direction

Post by cestlamort » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:28 pm

I'm pretty happy with the microkorg, despite it's limitations (small, toy-like, etc).  Value for money spent is great, as much of it sounds fantastic.  And can be edited, if you're patient.

For old stuff, it might be worth checking into some vintage and later bargains.  I've liked all the following:
yahama tg33 (fm, but does some really remarkable wav form stuff.  Great for strings and pads and noise).  $50-75
ensoniq esq-1 full sized, digital with analog filters and onboard sequencer.  $100-150.  Easy to program.
red sound dark star (90s VA).  Lots of knobs.  anywhere from $75 - 200 (I haven't checked lately).  Worth picking up if you stumble across one -- mostly noise stuff though (no presets). 

anything from Waldorf is worth looking into.  Great sounds, makes sense.  Too bad they went under. 

Avoid the yamaha dx7 if you're not into getting into crazy programming. (and the stonewashed jeans, pleated pants fibreman mentioned!)

But I'm a midiot, anyway.

microkorgs go for about $200-250, the micron probably about $300. 

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Re: Could any synth module/rack synth users point me in a good starter direction...?

Post by BlixaFan » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:32 pm

waldorf is still around, they recently released the blofeld. waldorf has a very specific sound though, one that i could never find a spot for in my music, which is why i no longer own any waldorf synths (I owned 2)
check them out though www.waldorf-music.de

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Re: Could any synth module/rack synth users point me in a good starter direction...?

Post by HeartfeltDawn » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:18 pm

stevejamsecono wrote: Hey Folks,
My role in my new band is starting to expand from just playing the bass to more general noisemaking, and as such I'd like to add to the chaos by adding a little synthesizer rig to my present bass/guitar rig.
At first I was looking into the Alesis Micron because it seemed like a nice little synth that would do exactly what I wanted, and it would remain compact. (I may still do this, but just for the sake of being cheap...)
The other option that was broached to me was getting a synth module to hook up to my MAUDIO midi keyboard (61 keys.. very nice). That being said, I'm kind of unfamiliar with available (or old) synth modules, or where to even start looking for them. I've poked around the vintage synth explorer website and gotten a few ideas, but I figured someone here would probably know a lot about it (we've had an excelllent track record so far for having "that guy/girl" on this forum for pretty much anything).
As far as sounds that I'd need/want, I'd like passable piano/organ sounds, and then I'd say my interests would be in a nice variety of pads and fat bass sounds. I don't tend to play Moogish leads in this band (nor would I really want them... despite what one of our guitar players says... ), so it'd more go along like... I dunno "Disentigration" era Cure sounds and that kind of thing.

but yeah, enough babbling from me. What's out there, what's a good deal? It seems like rack synths/modules are a bit out of vogue so they can be gotten on the cheap lately.

Thanks

-Steve

My first decent synth was an Ensoniq ESQ-1. It's got a good interface, very nice to program and some of the sounds are superb. I bought mine when I lived in Canada for just over $200. It was a shame I couldn't bring it back to the UK. Very cool synth, makes for a great MIDI controller too if you get into soft synths. The Moog-style stuff is good, and I had one Rhodes-type patch that was simply awesome with a splash of external reverb.

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