Is a reamp box really necessary?

[jorri]

I have -10DBv unbalanced outputs, with impedance of 150 ohms...
Just a quick question really, would i need to bother with reamp boxes?
It strikes me that everyone would just do this instead however, so i'm confused.

It looks like many buffered pedals already have about 150 ohms output anyway.

And instrument level is usually -20 or less, but this could be rectified with a volume pedal (rather than noise from turning down digitally)....or just a 'free boost' if necessary.

Nonetheless i imagine something isn't perfect...tons of noise? Would i reserve this for heavily effect laden sounds because tone is altered?

[øøøøøøø]

quick answer:

reamp boxes DO exist for a reason. But that doesn't mean that going straight out of a -10dBv output won't work for you. I've done it before, in a pinch.

The way it responds to the front of the amp is a bit different, in my experience.

[jorri]

So I do have a passive DI, and a pad for before it...

I guess i can try a monitor out as some kind of compromise. The AUX is unbalanced, so my prob is that even reamp box wouldn't work just on it's own.

I would assume this is OK with most pedals though, for using them as an outboard...since that's what's on the back of my amp. (maybe with a PAd).

Not usually too precious nor in a live situation when recording myself to need this, but will drastically improve stereo sounds i think, when i don't have baffles, want to handle phase or have enough decent mics.

Of course slamming more mics infront of the amp might provide that, and maybe using the stereo effects in the outboard scenario. I guess that's easier, or, double tracking could even be easier.

[øøøøøøø]

I'm not sure I understand exactly what it is you're trying to do?

[jorri]

yeh sorry its one of those "thinking aloud" type forum posts...

-This would just be for multi-amping, basically. Stereo effect sounds and parallel effects. And sometimes just the usual two-amp drive sounds.

I could do that all directly with an aby box or the stereo pedal...but don't really have the space/equipment to rule out phasing problems of the amps interacting together. Nor have i found much about that except baffling and 3;1 rule and adjusting phase because of electronic polarity differences, but even if i worked it out, i'd have to compromise with my limited microphone selection, i think.

-And the other thing would simply be using pedals as outboards. distorted drums and suchlike. Using my eventide space as an outboard because its better than my free DAW plugins. I play electric cello too so would be nice to use my pedalboard, with a micced acoustic cello.

[øøøøøøø]

are you familiar with the Pigtronix Keymaster?

It could be an elegant way to incorporate pedals in the way you're talking about.

[setyaback]

I did my first successful experiments with cheapo re-amping last night. I'm working on an EP for a side project and don't have a ton of time or resources to put into it. The time I do have is mostly time I have to create -- late nights at home while the rest of the family is sleeping. So I decided to try tracking all of the guitar and bass DI and going back when I have time and access to a loud room.

Here's my setup. Very cheap, very basic. Using a Tascam US-600 interface into Garageband.

Tascam unbalanced RCA output >
male RCA/female XLR converter >
Rolls DB25 Matchbox DI box >
Amp

My Rolls DB25 is OLD, but it works. It's quiet, it has a ground/lift switch, and an attenuator switch that can do 0, -20, or -40db. The newer version, which is $20 via Amazon, actually has an attenuator knob so it can be adjusted more precisely. In my half-hour or so of experimenting last night, I found the -20db setting to come quite close to emulating my guitar pickup's output.

Channel 1: DI guitar track, already recorded, no plugins, flat EQ, track solo'd out.
Channel 2: Audio Technica AT4040, room mic - Recording enabled, monitoring OFF, start track level at 12 oclock
Channel 3: Sure SM57, close mic - Recording enabled, monitoring OFF, start track level at 12 oclock
(could certainly be done with just a single mic)

On the Tascam, there's a dial that lets you determine what's being sent to the output -- either the signal from the live inputs, or the already-recorded tracks in your DAW, or a balance between the two. That dial needs to be set all the way to the "computer" side so that the only thing that goes to the output is the solo'd out DI track. Then, the master "level" control on the Tascam basically becomes like the volume knob on your guitar. I'm using that in conjunction with the attenuator on my DI box to get a really nice, clean, pickup-like signal.

To further fine-tune the levels, I hit record and let it run for a bit, watching the waveform of the newly recorded track. I compared the graphic to that of the pre-recorded DI track and adjusted track levels and overall output level to try to get all of the waveforms looking roughly the same.

I could spend $100 on the Radial Re-amp box, but I had all of this stuff on hand so figured it was worth a shot. (actually the RCA/XLR converter was $5). I'd like to try out the Radial and compare the tracks at some point, but for now this is definitely working for me.

[jorri]

So you found it better with the DI than just the unbalanced output?

I had some go at this, not really reamping. I outboarded drums through some distortion pedals, which seemed to work.
I had to do it a different way though, just the usual balanced output of the monitor out, through reverse DI. I panned the tracks to get separation from them so I could monitor in one side of headphones and have the other side being used as the effects send....well because a single cursor buttom on my aw1600 is broken and the aux send is the only thing without a workaround .

No real noise, though no way of telling if the frequencies were right. used a pad on the DI and i think might have put the active volume pedals in there becuase it may have helped impedance as well as attenuation. But i realised the monitor knob is an analogue pad so could have used that, if i didn't have to monitor the signal at the same time!

[setyaback]

So you found it better with the DI than just the unbalanced output?

Well, two things:

1. I don't have an RCA to 1/4" connector, so I didn't have the ability to even try going straight from the unbalanced output into my amp.

2. I absolutely needed the -20db pad in order to get that unbalanced line output signal into a useable range. I had it set to 0db for a brief moment and it was extreme.

I'm usually all for the simplest and shortest cable runs with minimal connections when recording, but I think this is a case where the extra connection makes sense.

I'm not sure if the transformers are really working in reverse like they should (Output impedence is 600 ohms and Input Impedance is 50K ohms) according to Rolls, or if this is just a case where something "works" even though it's not quite as good as if I had an actual Reamp box that was designed for this. To be honest, I don't care!